Addressed documents for FLR (M)

 National manager over a team of  IFA's for many years and over 30 years in Financial Services where detail and accuracy are crucial. That's why I am so detailed now

Anyway, could you answer me this conundrum that has puzzled me?

In this world of digital age and the new "on line" visa application where documents have to be downloaded, how come PDF documents (bank accounts, SKY bills etc etc) are not acceptable, but, paper originals that you scan and upload are? 

I guess it is because downloaded pdf bank statements could be doctored while originals can still be checked at the appointment?


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National manager over a team of  IFA's for many years and over 30 years in Financial Services where detail and accuracy are crucial. That's why I am so detailed now

Anyway, could you answer me this conundrum that has puzzled me?

In this world of digital age and the new "on line" visa application where documents have to be downloaded, how come PDF documents (bank accounts, SKY bills etc etc) are not acceptable, but, paper originals that you scan and upload are? 

Times are changing.  Until some time in 2018, for applications outside the UK, all originals had to be sent by post to Sheffield.  But then this NY scanning hub thing started, and they said they accept copies.  But while the method of submission has changed, Home Office haven't changed the rules/requirements.  (For example, I think the applications still ask for passport-sized photos, but we don't think they have been used for anything for some time now!)

I think it won't be long before online bank statements will be acceptable evidence.  But with thousands of dollars/pounds on the line, we just do what the rules say.

As for utility bills and GP letters for FLR(M), their purpose is not to show how much your SKY package costs, or whatever.  Their purpose is to show that on X date, the sponsor and applicant received official post at XX address.  Those have to be originals sent through the post, or they miss the point.  If you just pull up old PDFs off of your online account management days before you apply, that won't prove that you and your partner were both receiving post there 18 months ago.

National manager over a team of  IFA's for many years and over 30 years in Financial Services where detail and accuracy are crucial. That's why I am so detailed now

Anyway, could you answer me this conundrum that has puzzled me?

In this world of digital age and the new "on line" visa application where documents have to be downloaded, how come PDF documents (bank accounts, SKY bills etc etc) are not acceptable, but, paper originals that you scan and upload are? 

As jfKimberly just mentioned, as long as the rules still state that statements need to be original or stamped on every page by the bank, then that's what needs to be done!
A lot of the application makes no sense but one doesn't want to give them any reason to refuse, so better to give them exactly what they ask for and be done with it.  Think of it as a hoop jumping exercise! 

Larrabee and all you other great advisers:

What do make of this?

I contacted UKVCAS by e-mail today (via Sopra Steria UKCVAS....) with the following:

QUESTION:
Good day.
My daughter in law is applying for FLR(M) in March 2019.
We do not have any bank statements for July 2017 or December 2017.
However, they are on line as PDF files.
Can we download them straight from the Bank web site to their application when downloading all the other necessary other documents?
OR do they have to be paper bank statements that have to be scanned before downloading?

REPLY:

Dear XXXXXXX(name deleted,

Enquiry Id: #xxxx (deleted)
Enquiry Logged On: 20-02-2019

Thanks for your email.
You can upload PDF files to your UKVCAS account to cover this period if you are able to.

If not, you can print these at home or your bank should be able to print these out for you too.


Kind regards,

UKVI Services

Now...........knowing the kind of unreliable responses we've had from previous agencies back in 2016 can I assume things have moved into 21st century or treat it with suspicion?

I am forever guided by your advice.

Thanks

Larrabee and all you other great advisers:

What do make of this?

I contacted UKVCAS by e-mail today (via Sopra Steria UKCVAS....) with the following:

QUESTION:
Good day.
My daughter in law is applying for FLR(M) in March 2019.
We do not have any bank statements for July 2017 or December 2017.
However, they are on line as PDF files.
Can we download them straight from the Bank web site to their application when downloading all the other necessary other documents?
OR do they have to be paper bank statements that have to be scanned before downloading?

REPLY:

Dear XXXXXXX(name deleted,

Enquiry Id: #xxxx (deleted)
Enquiry Logged On: 20-02-2019

Thanks for your email.
You can upload PDF files to your UKVCAS account to cover this period if you are able to.

If not, you can print these at home or your bank should be able to print these out for you too.


Kind regards,

UKVI Services

Now...........knowing the kind of unreliable responses we've had from previous agencies back in 2016 can I assume things have moved into 21st century or treat it with suspicion?

I am forever guided by your advice.

Thanks

What do you need these statements for? I'm assuming you mean for correspondence rather than financial evidence because of the timeline?
Either way, their answer was incorrect as if for correspondence, the statements would have to be sent through the mail and if for financial requirement, the statements have to be either sent through the mail or stamped on every page by the bank.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

Larrabee and all you other great advisers:

What do make of this?

I contacted UKVCAS by e-mail today (via Sopra Steria UKCVAS....) with the following:

QUESTION:
Good day.
My daughter in law is applying for FLR(M) in March 2019.
We do not have any bank statements for July 2017 or December 2017.
However, they are on line as PDF files.
Can we download them straight from the Bank web site to their application when downloading all the other necessary other documents?
OR do they have to be paper bank statements that have to be scanned before downloading?

REPLY:

Dear XXXXXXX(name deleted,

Enquiry Id: #xxxx (deleted)
Enquiry Logged On: 20-02-2019

Thanks for your email.
You can upload PDF files to your UKVCAS account to cover this period if you are able to.

If not, you can print these at home or your bank should be able to print these out for you too.


Kind regards,

UKVI Services

Now...........knowing the kind of unreliable responses we've had from previous agencies back in 2016 can I assume things have moved into 21st century or treat it with suspicion?

I am forever guided by your advice.

Thanks

They will have assumed the purpose of the bank statements in your question was for meeting the financial requirement, as you did not specify, and it is advice that is not reflected in the guidance so is suspect.  Meanwhile, for the relationship evidence (the six to twelve items of correspondence addressed to the applicant and sponsor spread over the past two years), PDFs printed from your computer will miss the point.

You understand that for this application, you have three requirements to meet:

Accommodation:
-  If renting, they will include a copy of their tenancy agreement, and if only the sponsor is on it, then they should also obtain a letter from the landlord saying the applicant can live there, too.
- If they own their home, a copy of the land registry document showing the sponsor and/or the applicant as the owner

Financial (for Category A, and assuming you're using only the Sponsor's income):
-  Sponsor's payslips spanning six FULL months prior to the date of the application
-  Sponsor's bank statements spanning the same six FULL months and showing the deposits of the payslips going in
-  A letter from the sponsor's employer outlining the details of his employment

Relationship:
- marriage certificate
- six items of jointly-addressed or six pairs of individually-addressed items of correspondence sent to the applicant and sponsor over the two years prior to the date of application, sent from at least three different official sources, evenly spread out in date.

For that last bit, the items have to be original items of post.  The purpose is to show that the couple have been living together in their home since the previous visa was granted.  This is demonstrated by the fact that they both received their post there for the last two years.  Printing off prior bank statements today doesn't prove where she was living in July of 2017.

Thanks both.

Sent it 1st thing this morning and thought it worth a shot as we are now using a new "modern" system.

We have all documents to show where accommodation except for  these 2 periods as before(applicant)

As for rental agreements (have 3 in joint names), satisfy earnings and will/already have  documents to substantiate.

Also passports/ birth certificates for kids/marriage certificates/ kids UK passports etc etc all to hand and ready.

Back to the drawing board!!

They will have assumed the purpose of the bank statements in your question was for meeting the financial requirement, as you did not specify.  It's helpful to know that they will accept PDF bank statements for the financial requirement, but for the relationship evidence (the six to twelve items of correspondence addressed to the applicant and sponsor spread over the past two years), PDFs printed from your computer will miss the point.

Until such time as they revise FM1.7 and FM-SE to reflect this, I would consider this to be incorrect advice from Sopra Steria.

Until such time as they revise FM1.7 and FM-SE to reflect this, I would consider this to be incorrect advice from Sopra Steria.

That's a good point.  I will edit my post so it doesn't sound so much like I am endorsing their response.

We've seen people getting away with statements printed from online for the financial evidence  but we've also seen that mentioned  in refusal letters as one of the reasons that others were denied. You always want to present the most watertight application possible so there is not a single thing for them to question.

Hello again,

According to the latest Govt guidelines that I can see available, a tenancy agreement is "an acceptable item of correspondence."

We have 3 (covering 2016-17 &18) all in JOINT names

The latest is signed and dated November 2018 which is exactly the period we are looking to cover.

Will upload all 3 with application but wanting to use just this 1 as proof of correspondence address as we now have others from various sources.

Is this good to go?

Thanks

Hello again,

According to the latest Govt guidelines that I can see available, a tenancy agreement is "an acceptable item of correspondence."

We have 3 (covering 2016-17 &18) all in JOINT names

The latest is signed and dated November 2018 which is exactly the period we are looking to cover.

Will upload all 3 with application but wanting to use just this 1 as proof of correspondence address as we now have others from various sources.

Is this good to go?

Thanks

You can use the tenancy agreements for the correspondence, yes. Just make a note somewhere that you are using the most recent one for the accommodation requirement as well.

Larrabee,

Thank you for your reply.

As mentioned previously we have 3 years signed and dated tenancy agreements.

So after a thorough search of files all week here we go with our list of document to provide confirmation of accommodation/address only at this time:
DOCUMENT LIST

March – June 2017

•   JOINT -Water Bill  dated March 2017

July – October 2017

•   Applicant – HMRC Tax Notification – dated August 2017
•   Applicant - P45 + covering letter from Office Angels– dated September 2017
•   Sponsor -Tax notification– dated July 2017
•   Sponsor - Sky bill – dated July 2017

November 2017 – February 2017

•   Joint -Tenancy agreement - dated November 2017
•   Applicant- Pension letter from “Auto Enrolment” provider)– dated November 2017

March – June 2018

•   JOINT -Council Tax bill – dated March 2018

July – October 2018

•   Applicant – Annual Bank statement – dated July2018
•   Sponsor – HMRC Tax Notification – dated July 2018
•   Sponsor -  Sky bill – dated July 2018

November 2018-February 2019

•   Applicant - NHS Hospital appointment letter – dated November 2018
•   Sponsor - CC statement – dated November 2018

Does this look good to you?

Thanks again.

Larrabee,

Thank you for your reply.

As mentioned previously we have 3 years signed and dated tenancy agreements.

So after a thorough search of files all week here we go with our list of document to provide confirmation of accommodation/address only at this time:
DOCUMENT LIST

March – June 2017

•   JOINT -Water Bill  dated March 2017

July – October 2017

•   Applicant – HMRC Tax Notification – dated August 2017
•   Applicant - P45 + covering letter from Office Angels– dated September 2017
•   Sponsor -Tax notification– dated July 2017
•   Sponsor - Sky bill – dated July 2017

November 2017 – February 2017

•   Joint -Tenancy agreement - dated November 2017
•   Applicant- Pension letter from “Auto Enrolment” provider)– dated November 2017

March – June 2018

•   JOINT -Council Tax bill – dated March 2018

July – October 2018

•   Applicant – Annual Bank statement – dated July2018
•   Sponsor – HMRC Tax Notification – dated July 2018
•   Sponsor -  Sky bill – dated July 2018

November 2018-February 2019

•   Applicant - NHS Hospital appointment letter – dated November 2018
•   Sponsor - CC statement – dated November 2018

Does this look good to you?

Thanks again.

You have more than you need there, you can afford to trim it a little. You only need one joint or one individual piece each from each time frame.
Other than that, it looks good! 

Just to clarify though, this is not your accommodation evidence, it is the correspondence/relationship evidence. Your accommodation evidence  will be the most recent tenancy agreement.