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Topic: Value judgements vs. statements of facts  (Read 4155 times)

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Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« on: March 01, 2019, 01:40:20 PM »
This has been nagging at me for a few days, and something happened today that brought it up again.

On Monday, I met up with a local Mensan to play backgammon.  While we were playing, I noticed a splodge on one of the pieces and thought it was a drop of water (condensation that had dripped from my drink), and tried to wipe it off.  Then I said, "Oh, it's a little deformed..." and because this is what I would've done back home with my siblings, or here now with my husband, I grinned and tacked on, "like me!"  Because I know how I'm constructed.  It's a completely accurate thing to say.  I didn't attach any value to it.  I just acknowledged the irregularity in the piece and in my shape.

My (slightly older) companion took offense.  I was lectured about how I should never say bad things about myself, because "when you think negatively about yourself, it weakens you emotionally... it wears on you."  And I said, "But I didn't say anything good or bad about myself.  It wasn't a value judgement.  I made a statement of fact.  I am a little deformed."  Obviously, that's not all I am, but in the context of that moment, it was the quality I shared with that backgammon piece, and I said it because it was funny, gawddammit!

Anyway.  My point is, a person can say a thing about another person that maybe acknowledges not their best trait and not mean anything negative by it.  If you say the word "deformed" is unkind, then you make it unkind.  You attach negative value to it.  If you are calling someone deformed with the intent to be cruel, you are attaching negative value to it, then, too.  But when you're merely observing a fact, it is not unkind.  It is neutral.  It is a statement of fact.

Obviously, there is a time and a place for saying things to/around/or about people.  Always make sure you won't embarrass someone or humiliate them, or bring up something that they might want to forget (or that is so painfully obvious that they don't need to be told... I mean, there's no point telling me I'm deformed, because I obviously already know that, so let me go on pretending to the world that I'm not deformed until/unless I choose to stop pretending for a moment).

But when you do something nice for a person for whom you feel bad because of one of their traits, that is a kindness, no matter the context.  So, what I'm saying is, I happily accept gifts -- especially monetary ones (or silly ones, or tasty ones, or...) -- if you guys feel bad for me.  PM me for my Paypal or physical address.  ;)
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14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 03:37:58 PM »
Cutting to the chase, once you distracted them with this ethical question, did you crush the enemy at backgammon?
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 03:46:52 PM »
Cutting to the chase, once you distracted them with this ethical question, did you crush the enemy at backgammon?

Gawd, no.  I'm convinced she cheats.  She always gets exactly the right dice when she needs them, and we play with her sets.  (And the whole time we play, she tells me about how other people have cheated over the years.)  Maybe I should bring my own set once, just to make sure.  But I really don't want to further this acquaintance, if I'm honest.  Apart from backgammon and being in Mensa, we have nothing in common, and... well... our values are not 100% compatible.  We would not be friends in any other context.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2019, 03:50:39 PM »
Gawd, no.  I'm convinced she cheats.

That's where I thought you were going with the marked piece!  ;D


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 04:01:54 PM »
That's where I thought you were going with the marked piece!  ;D

Me too!


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 04:07:23 PM »
She thought you have self esteem issues? 🤣🤣🤣



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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 05:03:43 PM »
She thought you have self esteem issues? 🤣🤣🤣

HAHAHA!  That's what I thought, too!  *high-five*
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2019, 07:18:06 AM »
She thought you have self esteem issues? 🤣🤣🤣

"Don't be so hard on yourself.  By-the-way, checkmate! Again!"
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2019, 08:19:20 AM »
"Don't be so hard on yourself.  By-the-way, checkmate! Again!"

It's like you were there.   :D
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 05:21:43 PM »
maybe they were just filtering a personal trigger point through your statement?
Sounds like it says more about them than yourself..but hey what do I know, look at my own sig for self deprecation  :o


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 10:20:48 AM »
maybe they were just filtering a personal trigger point through your statement?
Sounds like it says more about them than yourself..but hey what do I know, look at my own sig for self deprecation  :o

Now I'm curious!  But your sig doesn't show...
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2019, 10:24:15 AM »
Now I'm curious!  But your sig doesn't show...

It's on the side bar. :) 

Quote
I'm not acting confused, I AM Confused!


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 11:10:20 AM »
It's on the side bar. :)

Ah, thanks, larrabee.  It doesn't show on my phone, but I see it now that I've moved to "big phone" (my laptop).
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2019, 10:00:15 PM »
in most contexts, if you called someone deformed, i wouldnt' blame them for taking offence. even if its a "fact". it's like calling someone a fat pig when they are indeed a immensely fat, but you normally would have the empathy not to say that to them. i personally wouldn't notice a drop on any playing piece lol. people can be very, vastly, different cant they.


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Re: Value judgements vs. statements of facts
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2019, 09:06:48 AM »
in most contexts, if you called someone deformed, i wouldnt' blame them for taking offence. even if its a "fact". it's like calling someone a fat pig when they are indeed a immensely fat, but you normally would have the empathy not to say that to them. i personally wouldn't notice a drop on any playing piece lol. people can be very, vastly, different cant they.

In this context, I'd called myself deformed, and I was not offended.  But thank you for the lesson in manners.  I've seen how you get on, and I'm sure I'll put your advice to very good use.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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