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Topic: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.  (Read 352 times)

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Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:11:06 PM »
For those of you renting, the Tenant Fee Bill is now the Tenant Fee Act (law) and comes into force from 1 June. This is not for renters in Wales. 

For contracts signed from 1 June 2019, it's the end of all fees to the tenant , a cap on the deposit to just 5 weeks rent; a change to any holding deposit (in a tenants favour);  a change to the rules for what can be charged for lost keys (will now only be the true cost of key replacement and landlord must produce  that receipt); a reduction of late rent charges to just a few pounds, but only after 14 days late etc.


From past court cases with the deposit protection scheme, I'm assuming a renewal of a tenancy contract will be a new contract and any money already held in deposit that is more than 5 weeks rent, will have to be returned to the tenant within 30 days to avoid the 3k fine to the landlord. It reads like the tenant does not have to request this as it is up to the landlord/letting agent to comply with English law for their business and return that money to the tenant to avoid a 3k fine.

Unlike some other laws for landlords which can have unlimited fines/jail time when heard in county court (criminal), the government have put a cap on this of 30k for each criminal offence.

It reads like Trading Standards will be department enforcing this law as they already have the powers to fine/take a business to court and they are the ones a tenant should contact if they find the landlord or letting agent is/has broken the law and let TS deal with it. Councils will still be the ones will now deal with deposits that have not been protected in one of the schemes and any other problems with bad landlords/bad letting agents/ban tenants in their area, as they also have the powers to fine these and take them to court.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 02:37:59 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 02:36:33 PM »
Sucks to be a tenant.  While reads good on paper, these fees will just be built into rents.


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 02:59:08 PM »
Sucks to be a tenant.  While reads good on paper, these fees will just be built into rents.

It sucks to be a landlord now; it used to be so much better when I was one years ago. Abusers always get the laws changed and this often affects the decent people too. Registration of all landlords in England next?

Although I was glad to see that the changes for those landlords who are still stupid enough to think they can help themselves to what they want from their tenant's deposit., only affects these bad landlords. These are then prevented from being allowed to take use a deposit scheme and therefore can never take a deposit again. :)

They won't be able to add these to the rents as that is in the law too. But a landlord will be able to choose to move to a letting agent that has lower charges and the Letting Agents will have to cut their cloth accordingly.

Or they can do what a tenant does to check on a landlord, use the online facilities: the criminal court and bankruptcy lists. A tenant can also use Land Registry to look at that let and at the house the landlord lives in, to see how exposed they are to debt under the Charges section of that title deed etc before they sign a contract. A landlord can ask for proof of the tenants earnings, before they sign a contract.

We have seen all this before from some landlords, when they don't read the laws going through that affect their business. e.g when the welfare cap came in and  some landlords still thought they could keep the rent at the same level, but then found they had to drop their rent when they discoved that Housing Benefit was now reduced to 50p.

It's going to be the same with the in-work benefits as they are getting reduced too .. to lower the rents. It was the raising of the rents to LHA from HB back in about 2004(?) , that pushed the rents up. Before that with HB, it was down to the council assessing any intended rent rise under their fair charges for a property in that range. Now the rents are being lowered by the same method, the welfare cuts that are coming in from this year.

Also the looking at making 5 year tenancies, with break clauses for the tenants only, as some other EEA countries have.

Plus all the other laws that came for landlords and the exisiting Housing laws, which I doubt all landlords have bothered to read.  e.g the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2018. Perhaps these think that if they use a letting agent, then they are exempt from the law?

« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 04:37:05 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 05:04:21 PM »
Sirius, if you honestly think this will not drive rents up, I've got some AMAZING snake oil to sell you.   ;)

But yes, they are absolutely doing everything they can to make being a landlord unattractive.  A bit like they are doing everything they can to make being British unattractive.   :-\\\\


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 08:18:34 PM »
Sirius, if you honestly think this will not drive rents up, I've got some AMAZING snake oil to sell you.   ;)

As I said, as benefits drove up rents, they are using benefits bring them back down. A lot of landlords are taking benefits either directly or indirectly. We have already started seeing this coming into play and that is with the changes not starting much atm!

Landlords who failed to have a business plan for their business and just imagined they could keep putting the rent up, some already finding they are now taking less rent as the tenant's benefits have been reduced or they face having to cover their own mortgage debt, which they cannot do.

We are wondering how some landlords will service their mortgage debt when the mortgage interest rate rises back to 10% or 7% (the historic average): even a 2 or 3 percent rise could see then fall into arrears on the buy to let and the property they live in? The new laws came in to protect the tenant who has a landlord in mortgage arrears and about to have that property repossessed by the lender, but not for landlords.  Boom and bust is always part of the UK housing market.
 
I've just seen a landlord hit under the new welfare changes for his own family: the usual, had a good job and lost it and partner working but on an average salary and not enough to keep them all.  They asked for low income benefits to keep them and their four children and were angry because they were refused; because they have capital in their business they should be using instead (capital in their buy to let property).

There are landlords already claiming means tested benefits for years, who will be losing these welfare payments under the capital changes for benefits and I'm guessing some of these don't know that either if they are the ones who don't bother to read the laws or any law changes. 

The new law, so that the council carries out the repairs and bill the slow landlord, is great for the tenant and is right, but not good for the landlord with a poor/no business plan and very little money.  Councils have a lot of powers to recover money they are owed, that is why Council Tax is always regarded as a one of the two priority debts because people can end up in prison for not paying council debt.



But yes, they are absolutely doing everything they can to make being a landlord unattractive.  A bit like they are doing everything they can to make being British unattractive.   :-\\\\


Only for those that expected to get a lot in return.  There are plenty of professional landlords out there who are in it for the long term and have the funds to offer a quick sale to those landlords who get themselves into financial trouble. Not that they are happy with the behaviour of the landlords who have brought in all these law changes. :)

This latest law will make it easier for tenants to move properties, especially good for the tenant if they have a bad landlord. There will be no more checking in and checking out fees, references fees, maximum 5 weeks rent for a deposit only  (if the landlord is still allowed to take a deposit) strict guidleines for returning a holding fee and only one holding fee allowed by the LL/LA etc.


« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 09:16:31 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 11:07:27 AM »
As I said, as benefits drove up rents, they are using benefits bring them back down.  A lot of landlords are taking benefits either directly or indirectly.

Out of sheer curiosity, where are you getting your facts that benefits drove the prices of rent up? I'm struggling to see the link beyond maybe if it's an area where landlords are heavily relying on councils paying out benefits and they will suddenly be told to take less/lower rent or find a renter who doesn't need the assistance of benefits they might lower rent to accept less money. I would be more inclined to see the cause/effect of rent being raised due to cost of living in particular areas and the amenities a particular area can provide less than just "benefits go up so rent goes up too"....Also, I'm personally witnessing a lot of people NOT accepting benefits within my county because they see it as a risk to do so (so I see many people going on local buy/sell pages looking for anybody who will accept benefits for rentals and struggling to do so), so not sure a blanket statement like that can be applied across the board for the country.

Landlords who failed to have a business plan for their business and just imagined they could keep putting the rent up, some already finding they are now taking less rent as the tenant's benefits have been reduced or they face having to cover their own mortgage debt, which they cannot do.

If you're speaking in terms of business plans, use a local, small business as an example. When prices for property rental/land taxes/VAT/etc. go up, the prices of good being sold go up. A landlord raising prices - while it CAN just be greed in some cases - is not always due to "not having a business plan for their business" as you often like to claim in our threads. Without the ability to see the future or operate a crystal ball, you can't account for everything in advance and you can only plan for so much within a few year window.


We are wondering how some landlords will service their mortgage debt when the mortgage interest rate rises back to 10% or 7% (the historic average): even a 2 or 3 percent rise could see then fall into arrears on the buy to let and the property they live in?

I genuinely think that if you're cutting it that close on making your mortgage payments, it might be time (as a landlord) to consider if you should continue to be a landlord. Definitely wouldn't disagree with a council telling somebody who's a landlord that they couldn't help while they still held onto a buy-to-rent.


The new law, so that the council carries out the repairs and bill the slow landlord, is great for the tenant and is right, but not good for the landlord with a poor/no business plan and very little money.  Councils have a lot of powers to recover money they are owed, that is why Council Tax is always regarded as a one of the two priority debts because people can end up in prison for not paying council debt.

Totally can get on board with this. If a landlord isn't making repairs in a timely manner, I think it'll be nice to have the council step in.


Quote
. A tenant can also use Land Registry to look at that let and at the house the landlord lives in, to see how exposed they are to debt under the Charges section of that title deed etc before they sign a contract.

This is the one thing I CAN'T get on board with. I don't like the idea that a tenant could just look up where I, as a landlord, lives. I don't have an issue with a letting agent doing so, but I don't like the idea that there could be a crazy tenant out there who decides they want to look at where I live. The fact that when they move out of my property, I won't have any clue where they are but they will know where I am unless I move home myself makes me feel unsettled.
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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 03:20:20 PM »
Out of sheer curiosity, where are you getting your facts that benefits drove the prices of rent up? I'm struggling to see the link beyond maybe if it's an area where landlords are heavily relying on councils paying out benefits and they will suddenly be told to take less/lower rent or find a renter who doesn't need the assistance of benefits they might lower rent to accept less money. I would be more inclined to see the cause/effect of rent being raised due to cost of living in particular areas and the amenities a particular area can provide less than just "benefits go up so rent goes up too"....

I've explained about HB and LHA above. It's your choice to read up on all the things that could be relevant to your business, or not to.

Also, I'm personally witnessing a lot of people NOT accepting benefits within my county because they see it as a risk to do so (so I see many people going on local buy/sell pages looking for anybody who will accept benefits for rentals and struggling to do so), so not sure a blanket statement like that can be applied across the board for the country.

As already said above, lots of landlords and tenants are on benefits e.g.  Tax Credits. Some landlords are even claiming all sorts of means tested benefits under the old system, including HB/LHA, but will not be allowed to carry on having means tested benefits under the new system.

What if they, or you, go on benefits after the contract is signed by both parties? Two parties sign a contract, later on one party goes on benefits. Do you really think the relevant benefit agencies will tell the other party, that the other is on benefits? Have you heard of the UK's Data Protection Act? That's another REALLY important read for those in the letting business.


If you're speaking in terms of business plans, use a local, small business as an example. When prices for property rental/land taxes/VAT/etc. go up, the prices of good being sold go up. A landlord raising prices - while it CAN just be greed in some cases - is not always due to "not having a business plan for their business" as you often like to claim in our threads.

Not using a business plan for your business, or not reading all the laws that will apply to your business, is your choice entirely.

Using your analogy above, plenty of shop landlords end up with an empty property/shop, often for months or years,  when they raise the rent and the tenant then moves out. 

Definitely wouldn't disagree with a council telling somebody who's a landlord that they couldn't help while they still held onto a buy-to-rent.

What has a council got to do with benefit money?

This is the one thing I CAN'T get on board with. I don't like the idea that a tenant could just look up where I, as a landlord, lives. I don't have an issue with a letting agent doing so, but I don't like the idea that there could be a crazy tenant out there who decides they want to look at where I live. The fact that when they move out of my property, I won't have any clue where they are but they will know where I am unless I move home myself makes me feel unsettled.

:) You might be a crazy landllord and you know where they live.

It's the law that the tenant can have your home address if they ask for it. e.g. They might want to sue you and will need your  address for the court documents, or they can pass that to a relevant authority to take action against you for failing to comply with the laws.e.g. Councils, Trading Standards (under this new law starting 1 June).

I gave all my tenants my phone number and address, so that they could phone me if a repair needed carrying out and then I would try to get that repair done by the following day at the latest. I can't understand these landlords and their repairs in a  "timely manner" - just get it fixed.

A landlord friend of mine still gives his tenants a copy of his passport, as well as showing the deeds to show he owns the property, and his latest mortgage agreement to show it is a Buy to Let and he has the permission to let, and his latest mortgage statement to show he is up to date and not going to have the property repossessed by the lender. In return, he can see their passport/s to show they are a British citizen, or a copy of their BRP or EU RC, and their statement and wage slips, benefit award letter/s. It's a two way street.



« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 03:54:08 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 03:55:44 PM »
I'ver explained about HB and LHA above. It's your choice to read up on all the things that could be relevant to your business, or not to.


You've spoken your opinion, not fact. You've not shared facts and figures or sources (unless you've amended your post since I viewed/responded).

As already said above, lots of landlords and tenants are on benefits e.g.  Tax Credits. Some landlords are even claiming all sorts of means tested benefits under the old system, including HB/LHA, but will not be allowed to carry on having means tested benefits under the new system.

Again, is that not opinion? You've not exactly shared facts and figures, just what you know some people are doing (which is why I said I don't think you can apply it across the board for the whole UK.

What if they, or you, go on benefits after the contract is signed by both parties? Two parties sign a contract, later on one party goes on benefits. Do you really think the relevant benefit agencies will tell the other party, that the other is on benefits? Have you heard of the UK's Data Protection Act? That's another REALLY important read for those in the letting business.

Apologies I thought you were talking about housing credit benefits specifically (my comment was in regards to landlords not accepting housing credits).

Not using a business plan for your business, or reading all the laws that will apply to your business, is your choice entirely.

Using your analogy above, plenty of shop landlords end up with an empty property/shop, often for months or years,  when they raise the rent and the tenant then moves out. 

You're missing the point...you can't make a "business plan" for laws that will not be created/enacted in 3 years time...lol

Wouldn't disagree with the rent going up causing shop owners to move out. That is completely what happens because they can't afford it (because nobody is now buying their products which are marked up because of the raise in rent). That is actually beside the original point I was making, however (which is raising rent due to additional fees isn't necessarily due to lack of a "business plan").

What has a council got to do with benefit money?

I was referencing your point: " They asked for low income benefits to keep them and their four children and were angry because they were refused; because they have capital in their business they should be using instead (capital in their buy to let property)."

:) You might be a crazy landllord and you know where they live.

I might be ;) But they can always move out of the property to a location that I cannot find them if I were so inclined. It's a lot less likely that I am going to move from my home just to avoid a tenant knowing where I live. Much easier to move from rented accommodation to another rented accommodation than me uprooting due to a past tenant. I can appreciate the logic you've presented about needing the address to sue, but I just don't like the idea that they will easily be able to find me yet they move and I am unable to locate them (like our tenants who had moved out after causing thousands in damage...our letting agent dropped the ball and has since paid us partial compensation and free services for future use, but if we had wanted to take the the tenants to court, our last known address for them is our flat).


« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 06:24:17 PM by x0Kiss0fDeath »
My, how time flies....

* Married in the US and applied for first spousal visa August 2013
* Moved to the UK on said visa October 2013
* FLR(M) applied for  May 2016. Biometrics requested June 2016. Approval given July 2016.
* ILR applied for January 2019 (using priority processing). Approved February 2019.
* Citizenship applied for May  2019

**CITIZENSHIP APPROVED July 4, 2019! Ceremony to take place in August!! (Nearly a Brit!)**


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2019, 06:18:26 PM »

 Have you heard of the UK's Data Protection Act? That's another REALLY important read for those in the letting business.

I'm curious, do you know how insulting and condescending this kind of comment is?  Why do you do it?


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2019, 01:01:58 PM »
I'm curious, do you know how insulting and condescending this kind of comment is?  Why do you do it?


The words, pot. kettle and black spring to mind.



Buy to let is like and other areas in life, where abusers get the rules changed and make it harder for the decent people. Only abusers have sympathy for abusers and strangely, they often see themself as a victim when caught.

Except that all the bad landlords are now costing all those who pay Income Tax or Council Tax (council staff employed just to deal with these  and the police who visit the landlords).

Buy to Let is a business and like any other busness owner, they need to follow all the various laws. Tenants and letting agents (in England) are not required to know all those laws. I suppose the big clue for a tenant is, that anybody who has read all the rules that affect their buy to let business, know that tenants now have more rights than the landlords have.

Some on immigration sites have  a list of what a bad immigration lawyer thinks and here are just some of what a bad landlords will say and none of these are true.

- I or my letting agent can visit to inspect the property to see how you are living.
- I can take what I want from your deposit
-I don't have to know the laws as I use a letting agent and I'll be in the clear if anything happens
//I even saw this one from  the BiL of a landlord where a tenant had died in an accident,  and watched the colour in his face drain as he was told that the landlord is responsible for the safety of their tenant/s. That landlord was more concerned about himself thant the tenant who had died!


If a tenant is unsure if the let is up to the safety standard required for lets in England, they can ask their local council to inspect the property and that doesn't just cover repairs that need doing.: that is free for tenants.The council will deal the landlord for any alterations to that property that the landlord must make, or the council will carry these out and bill the landlord. When you buy a house, it's buyer beware and it's up to you to ensure your home is safe. My first sight of a property a bad landord had (their old family home) cost her over 40k in required work to let.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 09:37:45 AM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2019, 01:10:31 PM »
Note that the landlord laws in Scotland differ from the above string of postings.


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2019, 01:20:49 PM »
Note that the landlord laws in Scotland differ from the above string of postings.

And Wales too. But Scotland doesn't have deposit protection laws, I think?

Does Scotland have the limit to the amount a tenant can be billed if they are late with their rent, as this law will do? Now it will only about £4 on an average rent and falls in line with all the other laws that got brought in to stop huge fees getting added by banks and credit card companies for late payments etc. Some of those who had these huge fees in the past, then went to court and the courts ruled that all that money had to be paid back, even though when they took those huge fees it was legal.

In fact Scotland have done what England should do and have Registration to stop these bad landlords from renting. Wales have just brought Registration in too, but unfortunately not this new law called the Tenant Fees Act that end all the fees bar two.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 09:38:39 AM by Sirius »


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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2019, 02:02:52 PM »
There is a deposit protection scheme, yes (no cost to the tenant). https://www.mygov.scot/tenancy-deposits-landlords/

https://www.mygov.scot/housing-local-services/landlords-letting/being-a-landlord/  Is also reader-friendly.  ;)

Chasing rent arrears:

The OFT guidance states:
3.46 We regard a requirement to pay unreasonable interest on arrears of rent, at a rate substantially above the
clearing banks’ base rates, as an unfair penalty. We regard the imposition of a fixed daily or monthly charge
for overdue rent, and regardless of the amount due or the surrounding circumstances, as being penal rather
than compensatory in nature, and unfair. Tenants would have to pay more than the cost of making up the
deficit caused by their default.
3.50 We consider that terms providing for fixed charges for sending reminders for overdue rent at fixed intervals
are unfair if they do not take into account the circumstances or the need for such reminders. Landlords are
entitled to recover the reasonable costs they incur in obtaining outstanding rent or other amounts due to
them, but should not impose arbitrary charges, either directly or through their agents. We object to terms
making tenants liable for all costs arising if rent arrears are transferred to debt collection agencies, because
the circumstances may not justify a tenant having to face the liability for all of the costs and so a court may
direct that the tenant should not have to pay those costs. The landlord’s remedy for non-payment of rent
arrears is a civil claim and the tenant is entitled to the protection of the court in this matter.


In Scotland, landlords and letting agents can only ask tenants to pay for:

    rent
    a refundable deposit (which can't be more than 2 months' rent)

Any other charges to tenants are called 'illegal premiums' and are against the law. They include charges like:

    administration fees
    credit checks
    holding fees (including refundable and non refundable fees)

If a tenant thinks they've been charged an illegal premium, they be able to claim this back and their landlord may be guilty of an offence.



I was looking at the price of housing in NI yesterday and it looks like they are still charging fees over there.



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Re: Renting. Tenant Fees Bill is now law.
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2019, 02:42:30 PM »

[/i]

In Scotland, landlords and letting agents can only ask tenants to pay for:

    rent
    a refundable deposit (which can't be more than 2 months' rent)

Any other charges to tenants are called 'illegal premiums' and are against the law. They include charges like:

    administration fees
    credit checks
    holding fees (including refundable and non refundable fees)

If a tenant thinks they've been charged an illegal premium, they be able to claim this back and their landlord may be guilty of an offence.

I've just realised that I knew that, because when some LLs and LAs were trying to stop this law going through in England, the various bodies and the MPs and Lords who pushed the Bill through, were saying how well it worked in Scotland and that the LLs and LAs arguement didn't hold. Then some LLs  and LAs wanted at least 6 weeks deposit and the charities wanted 4 weeks, so they settled on 5 weeks maximum and 6 weeks if the rent is over 50k a year.

Although some landlords in England and Wales are now prevented from taking a deposit if they start playing  a silly game with any tenants over what they think they can take, or they have to pay a fine to the tenant if the deposit is not held in the prescribed manner and give the full deposit back, even if it is still in the tenanacy. Three times the deposit fine plus the deposit back, was a nice little earner for some tenants when the landlord had not kept up to date, but the message soon got out. It wasn't that long ago that the landlord held the deposit in their own accounts, took what they wanted from it and didn't have a clue what Prescribed Information was.


And not that long ago that the LA fees for a tenancy were about £20; free if the landlord did this as we just printed it off our home computers or you could pick up a tenancy agreement for a few quid from W H Smiths, and there were no fees for renewing a tenancy. No check-in or check out fees as the landlords and tenants did this themselves.  It was always the landlord that paid any other LA fees. If the tenant lost a key, you gave them your set to get another set cut and asked them to return your set to the LA aftrwards or post them back through your letterbox, now some landlords want to bill for that "service" and add their fee on top.  It's hardly surprising that two of the governments have decided to nip in the bud this latest "rip off Britain" trend, of tenancy fees.

Did you know that Scotland were the first country in Britain to bring in the smoking ban too?


I was looking at the price of housing in NI yesterday and it looks like they are still charging fees over there.

That's a shame. Just Wales and NI still keeping the tenant fees for the tenant, atm.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 04:40:34 PM by Sirius »


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