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Topic: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?  (Read 1369 times)

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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2019, 10:15:50 PM »
By the way, I love the Trumpian argument you guys have got going on.  Just like Trump saying those who testified against him were guilty of treason and lying to Congress. 

I’m accused of “prejudice” for speaking against the most xenophobic idea in the last 20 years.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2019, 10:18:17 PM »
Most Brits who move abroad for work go to Australia, New Zealand, USA or Canada. A lot of Brits do go to Spain to live but that is mainly OAPs who want a warm place to retire.

Turns out learning to speak a foreign language sufficiently well to work is harder than filling immigration forms.

As best as I can tell most of the people who voted remain wanted to preserve their European identity and were worried about the economy.

Most of the people who voted leave did not like how the EU operates on an institutional level. This did manifest in an anti immigration vote, but there were other complaints about how the commission drafts laws and directives and how the parliament behaves.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 10:32:59 PM »
I fully recognize that there is a significant proportion of Brexit voters who were/are motivated by xenophobic tendencies.  But using language that intimates that those who support Brexit uniformly fall into that group and espouse those ideas is inflammatory and, in my opinion, is what contributes to tribal tendencies that seem to be so prevalent in politics today and ultimately, end up preventing actual constructive discourse between individuals/parties with opposing views.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2019, 10:44:59 PM »
I can say, for me, one GOOD thing about Brexit is that I haven't seen this level of engagement for a while.  People I know who usually couldn't give a flying feather about politics, government and world affairs are now interested in what's happening and are following developments and formulating opinions. 


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2019, 10:49:34 PM »
I can say, for me, one GOOD thing about Brexit is that I haven't seen this level of engagement for a while.  People I know who usually couldn't give a flying feather about politics, government and world affairs are now interested in what's happening and are following developments and formulating opinions. 

That's not so great if they can't think critically and get their news from FaceBook.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2019, 11:00:29 PM »
I fully recognize that there is a significant proportion of  voBrexitters who were/are motivated by xenophobic tendencies.  But using language that intimates that those who support Brexit uniformly fall into that group and espouse those ideas is inflammatory and, in my opinion, is what contributes to tribal tendencies that seem to be so prevalent in politics today and ultimately, end up preventing actual constructive discourse between individuals/parties with opposing views.


On the other hand, sometimes you have to stand up for what is right.  Is it prejudice to say all supporters of apartheid are racist?  Should we listed to their reasons why blacks are not human and give them equal weight?  If it's tribalism to call out racism and xenophobia then you all know what tribe I'm on.   The arc of history is not leaning towards Xenophobia and one day all those arguments will be pretty embarrasing. 




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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2019, 11:04:36 PM »
Most of the people who voted leave did not like how the EU operates on an institutional level. This did manifest in an anti immigration vote

You got that part right


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 06:55:54 PM »
I feel like I've been nattering away about my tribe, and it's only polite to ask about yall's.  What's the news?  I hear Tommy Robinson has been getting big in UKIP lately.  He's really been focusing on brown skin taxi drivers.  It must be exciting to have someone that famous fighting on your side. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 07:16:58 PM by jimbocz »


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2019, 12:06:52 AM »
I don't know too much about British politics but if Brexit gives the UK more freedom and independence so they don't have to follow the European Union then i support it.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2019, 09:20:48 AM »
I don't know too much about British politics but if Brexit gives the UK more freedom and independence so they don't have to follow the European Union then i support it.

Be aware that it will also limit movement - so young Brits won't be able to go to the EU to work or study as they do now. Of course, those who are better off financially will be able to pay the out-of-country tuition fees. And those who get educated in a shortage area will always have a shot at jobs there (after all EU citizens, who will have first shot at the jobs). But the average kid/person  on the street will be having a huge opportunity to live and work off- the-island virtually eliminated.  UK citizens living in the EU will become third party nationals - no longer with an automatic right to live there or have reciprocal medical care, or their rights protected. Good luck to the OAP already living there....

And, of course, the funding that comes in for education and cultural affairs from the EU will stop.  Historical preservation funds. Farm subsidies. Etc. And research money, and the ability to participate in cutting-edge research consortia as a partner country.

Military, security, and police issues - aside from still remaining in NATO, there would not necessarily be the level of cooperation that exists now. One would hope they'd work that out quickly, but from what I'm seeing of London, nothing happens quickly.

A hard Brexit will also mean that the UK will be under WTO rules, which will increase the cost of goods coming in, and the usual protectionist tariffs will kick in on goods exported from the UK to the EU.

I've seen a few polls and studies that showed that the likelihood of someone having supported Brexit increased with their age. I'd tend to believe that.  Young people typically have not wanted it, according to the pollsters and the people I've met. I've actually not run across a single younger person (uni age) who wants out of the EU. Of course, the kids/young adults are the ones who are going to have to live with it longer, aren't they?  I pity the youth of this country, really. What they are losing is huge, and the actual benefits of the trade-off, in my mind, are pretty minimal - mostly ego stroking.

The empire is dead, and has been for years. One can't bring back "the good old days" (my understanding of which is that they were not all that good for most people) with a referendum that ignores the outcome for and wishes of two of the four countries in the union. Scotland and Northern Ireland want to remain EU. Dragging them out of it will not end well for the Union.  So, yeah, the UK will be free to not follow the collective rules of the EU, but it will also have none of the benefits that belonging to a larger organization brings. It will be a little third-country island, and may eventually consist of only England and Wales.

This. Is. Not. A. Good. Idea.


Reference: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted


Over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union
We have now weighted our final poll to match the headline result, and the detail within it gives the best possible indication of how Britain actually voted last Thursday.

The vote to Leave exposed significant divisions within the country, as every region of the country except Scotland, Northern Ireland and London voted to Leave. Geography is not the only fissure in the country. Voters differed significantly according to age and education.

The most dramatic split is along the lines of education. 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain in the EU. Those with A levels and no degree were evenly split, 50% to 50%.

Age is the other great fault line. Under-25s were more than twice as likely to vote Remain (71%) than Leave (29%). Among over-65s the picture is almost the exact opposite, as 64% of over-65s voted to Leave while only 36% voted to Remain. Among the other age groups, voters aged 24 to 49 narrowly opted for Remain (54%) over leave (46%) while 60% of voters between the ages of 50 and 64 went for Leave.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 09:35:17 AM by Nan D. »


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2019, 09:16:22 PM »
My husband voted for Brexit and, if I had a vote, I would have as well.


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2019, 08:13:21 AM »
My husband voted for Brexit and, if I had a vote, I would have as well.

Would you mind expanding on that a little?  What is it about Brexit that makes it worth all the significant disadvantages?


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Re: POLL - how do you feel about Brexit?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2019, 11:16:13 AM »
Would you mind expanding on that a little?  What is it about Brexit that makes it worth all the significant disadvantages?

It's interesting how you phrased your question. That sort of antagonistic questioning is exactly why we have such polarisation and hatred in politics today.

Anyway, on to my personal reasons for leaving the EU...

I simply don't believe that large federal superstates work for the people they're supposed to serve. I prefer more devolution to local governments, not the creation of an ever closer union. I do not believe in the creation of the European Army, as I don’t believe we would get a veto on what ‘missions’ it deems acceptable. I do not believe in tax harmonisation. I do not like the current push for more qualified majority voting in the EU, which takes away the voice of individual countries. I do not believe in the European court of justice. The EU court system should not have the power to override British law. I do not like the behaviour and back door deals of the European central bank, I’m talking about Cyprus here. I do not believe in the free movement of people. In my opinion, every country should have the power to create an immigration policy that suits their own economy. I certainly don’t like sending billions of taxpayers money to the EU each year for a ‘club’ that we can’t seem to leave. Yes, a portion of that money is allocated for a rebate. A rebate that is neither guaranteed or in our control. We are told how to spend our own taxpayers money. In fact, the EU is currently talking about how to get rid of rebates altogether. They’re hypocritical. When the police in Spain were beating people in the street for voting, they turned a blind eye and said something about staying out of individual member states business. On the other hand, when we had EU elections, Verhofstadt was more than happy to join the Lib Dems on the campaign trail.

Finally, the EU didn't become the all encompassing political union we have today until the 90’s and the British people did not get to vote on whether to join it. The people voted to join a friendly trading bloc in 1975 and it should have stayed that way. The EU has morphed into a protectionist, bullying and bureaucratic waste of taxpayers money. I am not one of the people who pretend everything will always be smooth sailing when we leave, nor do I believe the sky will fall in. I just think we will be better off in the long run and that is what's important.


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