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Topic: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving  (Read 1335 times)

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citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« on: May 28, 2019, 08:15:48 PM »
Hi all

it's 3 months until I can apply for ILR, which I plan on doing premium/in person, so something like 3.5 months until I apply for citizenship. I'm starting to get my affairs in order for these.

I'm slightly concerned about the character test. I've reviewed the new guidelines here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/770960/good-character-guidance.pdf

There's an 'accruing of debt' section and like 3 reasons this concerns me:
1) I have a lot of student loans *waves in millennial* they are a combo of private and federal loans.
2) I don't pay on the federal loans because of the living overseas loophole. however, I always file my paperwork correctly and although I am not making payments, they are in good standing.
3) I.....defaulted several years ago on a private student loan. this may actually no longer appear on my credit report (I'm having some trouble actually getting a credit report!) because it was over 7 years ago.

so, questions:
1) does the amount of debt matter? we're talking around $90k left to pay, combined.
2) if i don't make payments, but the loans are listed as up to date, does this meet a good standard?
3) if this is no longer on my US credit report, do I need to disclose it on my citizenship application? It was around $10k, if that matters.


SEPARATELY, driving citations question.
I requested my driving record from my home state. I'd completely forgotten that there was a citation against me right before I moved to the UK in 2011; I wrote to appeal it in court, but then left the country before I was issued a court date. Obviously I was found liable as I was not there, and then paid the fine (though late). Does this count as a conviction? As of now, there are no points or active citations or anything on my license.

I know I had speeding tickets in other states in the early-to-mid 2000s, but I couldn't tell you exactly where (I moved a lot, and played a sport that had me on the road every weekend, and lived in those tiny east coast states so was always crossing state borders). however, all of these tickets would have been before I turned 18. do they matter? I *think* I got 3 speeding tickets, but I could have sworn one was in my home state, and that didn't turn up in my driving record, so I'm not even sure you can request details from other states if you were under 18?


thanks for any help and guidance here!
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2019, 08:57:14 PM »
update: my US credit report came through! the loan I am concerned about is listed as 'Profit and loss write-off'

-I then have 12 up-to-date student loans, and one paid off -- AND one more will be paid off in august, so as of application in september, it'll be 11 active up to day loans, 2 paid off.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:59:23 PM by crimson88 »
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 10:32:33 AM »
For debts, they are looking for bankruptcies/judgements... court-level issues.  $90k in student loans aren't a problem.

I think I would disclose the defaulted student loan so you're not seen as using deception.  I'm not sure if 7 years is long ago enough, though... having said that, it's not a judgement, and they don't pull your credit history.

For traffic violations, I was in a similar situation.  I emailed my home state's DMV (state-level) and asked for my record.  The contact I worked with explained in her reply that they had no record of non-serious violations prior to a certain year, so the only thing that showed up for me was a speeding fine from 2005.  I submitted this email exchange and explained that I know of at least one other speeding fine from when I first started driving, and possibly another one, but there is no longer any record of it.  The number of citations and age of them that you've described won't be viewed as bad character, so just disclose what you can remember as best you can to avoid deception.  It won't hurt to disclose it, but could hurt if you don't disclose but they somehow find it.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 11:15:36 AM »
thanks, jfkimberly! I obviously don't want to hide anything, but also don't want to include extra, unneeded information (like kfdancer is always saying to avoid with flrm!)

really reassuring to hear about your driving record - it does sound about the same as me! thank you.

i was able to check and there are no 'public record' results on my credit report, which i paid for with transunion. i think that's where any judgments would come up? i'm thinking I'll disclose it with a letter of explanation - I was literally facing homelessness or student loans, at a few days past my 18th birthday, and the university filled out all the paperwork for a bank loan and said it wouldn't be a big deal, just sign here. Several of this university's specific practices were cited in a federal case to clean up student loan marketing practices, and the university itself was fined for preying on students and colluding with a bank (which was, heh, lehman brothers). after lehman brothers crashed the loan was sold on several times, and that combined with the fact I have a lot of students loans (one for each semester, basically) and my living in several different countries abroad meant I lost sight of it until it was past due, and then they refused to work on a payment plan with me as I was living abroad. I was at a loss as to what to do when they wouldn't budge, so decided that it was worth defaulting on one loan in order to be able to pay off all the others.

but I don't think I can say all that to the home office :-/ more like youthful indiscretion and mistakes along the way, I guess.
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 02:23:37 PM »
Yes, it would come up under "public records" if you had a judgement against you.  It looks like they just wrote it off, and apart from the blip on your credit history (which will eventually fall off, and you have brand new, shiny UK credit now, anyway!  :) ), it should be fine.

You had to pay for your credit report? You should be able to get one from each of the three main companies for free each year.  https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0155-free-credit-reports
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 02:30:37 PM »
Yeah, I used to do the free ones when I lived in the USA. I tried to over the last couple of days, and each time it said it couldn't verify who I was, so print out and use the forms...I figured, in the end, paying $20 for a credit report was easier - and this way I'll have access to double check things as needed.

thanks again.

i have done a lot of work to ensure my UK credit is good - no blips, a credit card I pay off (nearly) every month, etc. I'm so nervous about this now, though...
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 03:39:57 PM »
Yeah, I used to do the free ones when I lived in the USA. I tried to over the last couple of days, and each time it said it couldn't verify who I was, so print out and use the forms...I figured, in the end, paying $20 for a credit report was easier - and this way I'll have access to double check things as needed.

thanks again.

i have done a lot of work to ensure my UK credit is good - no blips, a credit card I pay off (nearly) every month, etc. I'm so nervous about this now, though...

I won't lie.  I'm advising you now with confidence, but back when it was my turn, I was super nervous, too.  Turned out I was fretting over nothing, and you are, too.

This is what the guidance says for "Financial Soundness":

Quote
Consideration of financial soundness
If a person states that they have been declared bankrupt or have been a Director or involved in the management of a company (either wholly or partly) that has gone into liquidation, further enquiries must be made.
On receipt of information, an application can be granted where there is evidence that:
• the bankruptcy order has been annulled
• the person was discharged at least 10 years ago
• the person was declared bankrupt abroad
• the person was involved with a company that was liquidated over 10 years ago.

see page 37

You do not have a bankruptcy.  You have one loan that was written off, and a lot of accounts that are in good standing.  But even if you had a bankruptcy, it just says "further enquiries must be made", and they start looking into how long ago it was, etc.  You will be fine.  Do disclose the written-off loan if the question is worded so that you need to (absolutely avoid deception at all costs!), but don't try not to worry about it.  :)
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 06:11:48 PM »
thanks jfkimberly, i really appreciate your input.

trying to calm the panic attacks now...
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 12:36:58 PM »
Hi Crimson88,
I might be wrong, but, I believe there is a 13-month waiting period between receiving ILR and applying for citizenship.

If they have got rid of that waiting period, hopefully someone can pipe in and let us know, because if I am able to apply for citizenship right after I receive my ILR, that would be great news! I'm in the (slow) ILR application process right now.

Good luck on your applications.


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 12:42:21 PM »
Hi MrsNorton,  when it comes to ILR via the marriage route, you can apply for citizenship straightaway (unless that's changed *very* recently!)

if you get ILR via work visas for instance, you do have to wait that 13 months.
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 12:49:07 PM »
Hi Crimson88,
I might be wrong, but, I believe there is a 13-month waiting period between receiving ILR and applying for citizenship.

If they have got rid of that waiting period, hopefully someone can pipe in and let us know, because if I am able to apply for citizenship right after I receive my ILR, that would be great news! I'm in the (slow) ILR application process right now.

Good luck on your applications.

That waiting period does NOT apply to people married to a U.K. citizen.

If you are married to a U.K. citizen, the requirements are:
- 3 years of residency
- ILR held (for any length of time)... so you even could apply for citizenship on the day you are granted ILR

If you are NOT married to a U.K. citizen, the requirements are:
- 5 years of residency
- ILR held for at least 12 months



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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 12:51:16 PM »
thanks for your expertise, as always, ksand!

Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2019, 10:33:34 AM »
crimson, how did your application go, if you applied? I am in a similar situation in that I have defaulted student loans in the US but good credit in the UK and no debts here, but I am afraid it will impact on my application. I am meeting with an immigration lawyer to discuss but wondered how your application went.
Met UK 30/05/2016
Married US 03/03/2017
Applied spouse visa 17/04/2017
Decision 31/05/2017
**Visa Approved**


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Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2019, 01:56:42 PM »
Hi nonmerci!

So my specific situation had to do with private student loans. It may be different if you are talking about federal student loans.

I spoke to an immigration advisor and they told me to leave it off my application. If it had been part of a larger pattern or had led to bankruptcy, it would be worth including, but one defaulted loan is not what the home office cares about.

So I left it off. I was approved for ILR same day (paid for the quick route!)

My citizenship application is currently pending.
Sept '11: premium service same-day tier 4 visa granted in NYC
July '13: tier 4 visa - applied from boston
October '14: FLRM - applied priority in sheffield office
March '17: FLRM 2 - applied priority in sheffield office
Sept 2019: IRL, priority at Croydon, granted same day
October 2019: submitted naturalisation application
January 2020: citizenship approved!
March 2020: last citizenship ceremony before covid :-O


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  • Location: Wokingham
Re: citizenship: character test, student loans, and driving
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2019, 02:28:25 PM »
Hi nonmerci!

So my specific situation had to do with private student loans. It may be different if you are talking about federal student loans.

I spoke to an immigration advisor and they told me to leave it off my application. If it had been part of a larger pattern or had led to bankruptcy, it would be worth including, but one defaulted loan is not what the home office cares about.

So I left it off. I was approved for ILR same day (paid for the quick route!)

My citizenship application is currently pending.

We always take the stance of full disclosure.  It *shouldn't* affect your application but at least if you disclose it, there cannot be any charge of deception as it shows you have nothing to hide.

To add:  The requirements for Citizenship are more stringent than they are for ILR


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