Trying to figure out citizenship

Then I have to start filling in information about the degree and tell them how I'm going to give them proof of the degree.

Maybe I'm better off leaving it until after the MSc? And then I'll have something unframed to provide, hopefully before my P60 runs out of validity and we get back to having to the disprove-a-negative-wrt-HMRC situation? So tired of upending my life and trying to time things perfectly because they've got weird paperwork requirements. But I suppose I can hold my breath for another year.

A P60 is not required when married to a British Citizen - so no worries on that front.

But you say you have other degrees - why can't you use those?  Again, I don't think you *need* them but if already hold degrees that were taught in English, no point in waiting for your masters degree.

A P60 is not required when married to a British Citizen - so no worries on that front.

But you say you have other degrees - why can't you use those?  Again, I don't think you *need* them but if already hold degrees that were taught in English, no point in waiting for your masters degree.

I thought one of the requirements, regardless, is proving that you're in good stead with HMRC?

I'm embarrassed to admit that I've had my other degrees framed (I know, it's a deeply narcissistic act -- and now I'm reaping what I sowed). So I'll have to break the frames to get them out for scanning, or post two fragile items.

Seems the least-expensive option is to go just take the bloody test. Not looking forward to seeing what surprises the other requirements hold.

I thought one of the requirements, regardless, is proving that you're in good stead with HMRC?

Only if you’re self-employed. If you are an employee they can just check you’ve paid your taxes using your NI number.

There should be an option to tick that you are exempt from meeting the English Language requirement.

A few other people have applied in the last few months and they didn’t have to show any degrees or take a language test.


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I'll have to break the frames to get them out for scanning, or post two fragile items.

If you have a digital camera that can focus close enough, you might try taking a picture (possibly tricky with the glass I know) and just use that file, possibly with a little help from some basic photo editing software for cropping & any necessary tidying. I’ve gone this route with documents before with no problem.

I've asked XoD to look for this thread and comment.  As I know she *just* completed the online form.

Only if you’re self-employed. If you are an employee they can just check you’ve paid your taxes using your NI number.

There should be an option to tick that you are exempt from meeting the English Language requirement.

A few other people have applied in the last few months and they didn’t have to show any degrees or take a language test.


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Well that's a real Catch-22. HMRC don't issue a 'you're up to date' declaration, so I put my life on hold and went employed, because the P60 gives you that. Now I'm going back to self-employment, so now I'm back to not being able to apply at all. Fab news.

There is literally no option to tick for an exemption for being a US citizen. See the screencap I've posted twice. There are three questions in the English language section, and none of them are the exemption that I thought existed. It seems the test is the least-expensive route to go, but now that may all be moot.

Well that's a real Catch-22. HMRC don't issue a 'you're up to date' declaration, so I put my life on hold and went employed, because the P60 gives you that. Now I'm going back to self-employment, so now I'm back to not being able to apply at all. Fab news.

I feel like you’re making this too complicated for yourself. This should be the easiest application you’ve done, as it is much easier to meet the requirements for citizenship than for any of your previous visas.

If you are currently employed, it just says:
- We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order.

If you are currently self-employed, it says:
- If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require the most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self-Assessment Statement of Account.

There is literally no option to tick for an exemption for being a US citizen. See the screencap I've posted twice. There are three questions in the English language section, and none of them are the exemption that I thought existed. It seems the test is the least-expensive route to go, but now that may all be moot.

I’d wait for someone else who has applied recently to say how they filled out the form - there should be a way to sort it so it lets you continue without providing any degrees or tests.

There is no reason at all for you to have to take a language test, so I wouldn’t even be considering it.



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This is really odd as I didn't have to do ANYTHING on mine (that I did only a month or two ago now) regarding proving my English-language skills. Me stating that I'm a natural born US citizen with a US passport (and therefore, exempt) as all I needed to do to prove my english-language requirement (my passport was my proof).

Looking back at my application (I can see things already have changed when i go to log in to my account so there's a chance this may have changed as well), I have done the following (attached photo for reference):

- Do you have a degree that was taught in English: No (I didn't finish university so no, I don't have a degree taught in English)
- Have you passed an approved English Language test?: No (obviously I didn't pass an english language test)
- Are you claiming an exemption from the English langauge test due to medical or mental condition?: No (the exemption for me is based on being from the US, not due to any medical conditions).


it then goes down to documents you must provide and it says "US American passport, identity card, or official letter for K0D to prove the level of English langauge required" amongst the rest of my documents. (also attached). Perhaps I've done this wrong, but it's how I interpreted it and had no issue when going to the appointment (the person on the desk said it all looked fine). Obviously if I had a degree, it might have been different and I might have to deal with what you're dealing with now I guess. Not had a response back yet so can't tell you if it made a different how I interpreted it or not as I'm still waiting.

Also, just to add, I can't remember 100% but I am pretty sure there was something I could tick after I put "no" to all those mentioned above that stated I was exempt but it's not showing up on the copy of the application I have so I can't remember fully (as I might be confusing it with my ILR application that I did just before this one).

Also, you DEFINITELY don't have to provide your P60 if you're a regular full-time, salaried employee. I didn't have to provide any of that (just my NI number).

Honestly, I would step away from the application for a day or two to clear your head as I think you're letting yourself get frazzled by this and you won't be able to do yourself any good if you're trying to fill it out with a frazzled brain. Just remember that you're basically at the finish line so try to just "deep breath" it.

I definitely agree with Ksand that this was definitely the easiest out of allll the applications I've done thus far. Less evidence required and it was more straightforward than some of the other applications in the past. I'm not sure how you managed to get sucked into a bit where you're being asked to provide even more details than should be necessary   perhaps they changed the application a bit since I applied but it's only been around the 2 month mark since I did mine so I wouldn't have thought that'd be the case (but might just be unlucky). You absolutely do not need to take any language test or provide any additional information to the best of my knowledge.

Happy to walk through it all with you if you want to PM me? Don't want to put my entire application on here but I can help you more one-on-one if you want in a PM.

I feel like you’re making this too complicated for yourself. This should be the easiest application you’ve done, as it is much easier to meet the requirements for citizenship than for any of your previous visas.

If you are currently employed, it just says:
- We may ask H.M. Revenue & Customs for confirmation that your tax and National Insurance affairs are in order.

If you are currently self-employed, it says:
- If you do not pay tax through Pay As You Earn (PAYE) arrangements, we require the most recent HM Revenue & Customs Self-Assessment Statement of Account.

I assume nothing will be easy with UKVI, and this HMRC situation is an example. I've now left the employer, where I was miserable, because I had finally gotten the tax-proving P60 and secured a consulting contract. I'm taking time off before starting the gig, but that means I'm not employed, and I'm technically self-employed again. So I'm going to have to wait until I file again ... which means another year until all 2019-20 fiscal year paperwork is in hand. (Plenty of time to take the English test, if that turns out to be needed, though!)

As a note, the SoA doesn't actually show you've paid, which is why I thought it wasn't good enough -- it's not technically PROOF, just a display of what's owed, and they don't send you official receipts PROVING that you're paid up, so it's impossible to empirically demonstrate being in good stead with HMRC while self-employed. A P60 shows what tax you've paid, so that's proof. But that's not needed, even though it's the only kind of proof document that exists. The contradictions, poor grammar/syntax, and errors/bad UI/UX in the way they word things or set up forms are really bad for people whose brains are wired like mine.

I assume nothing will be easy with UKVI, and this HMRC situation is an example. I've now left the employer, where I was miserable, because I had finally gotten the tax-proving P60 and secured a consulting contract. I'm taking time off before starting the gig, but that means I'm not employed, and I'm technically self-employed again. So I'm going to have to wait until I file again ... which means another year until all 2019-20 fiscal year paperwork is in hand. (Plenty of time to take the English test, if that turns out to be needed, though!)

Would this count as currently being self-employed or would it count as being unemployed until the contact started?

When did you leave your salaried position? Just trying to think if there's a way around having to make this more difficult (I.E. have you only just left that job?)

Also you 100% DO NOT need to take the english test if you're a US citizen, I PROMISE you. It will not turn out to be the need. Please try not to get sucked into a loop of negativity (I know it's hard when you're stressed and it doesn't feel straightforward). I can't comment much further regarding the tax situation, but I can say that, for certain, you will not need to take the language test.

Also, just to add, I can't remember 100% but I am pretty sure there was something I could tick after I put "no" to all those mentioned above that stated I was exempt but it's not showing up on the copy of the application I have so I can't remember fully (as I might be confusing it with my ILR application that I did just before this one).

Also, you DEFINITELY don't have to provide your P60 if you're a regular full-time, salaried employee. I didn't have to provide any of that (just my NI number).

Honestly, I would step away from the application for a day or two to clear your head as I think you're letting yourself get frazzled by this and you won't be able to do yourself any good if you're trying to fill it out with a frazzled brain. Just remember that you're basically at the finish line so try to just "deep breath" it.

I definitely agree with Ksand that this was definitely the easiest out of allll the applications I've done thus far. Less evidence required and it was more straightforward than some of the other applications in the past. I'm not sure how you managed to get sucked into a bit where you're being asked to provide even more details than should be necessary   perhaps they changed the application a bit since I applied but it's only been around the 2 month mark since I did mine so I wouldn't have thought that'd be the case (but might just be unlucky). You absolutely do not need to take any language test or provide any additional information to the best of my knowledge.

Happy to walk through it all with you if you want to PM me? Don't want to put my entire application on here but I can help you more one-on-one if you want in a PM.

There isn't a fourth question, just the three you have in your screen cap (which is the same as what I tried to do). I don't want to lie about my education and be done for deception. My cheapest option is the test, which is fine, I'm sure I'll pass.

I know everyone keeps saying citizenship is easy, but it really doesn't seem it. I already had to put this off for over a year in order to be able to demonstrate ironclad proof of tax payments, and now I've faffed that for another year. (To be clear, I always pay my sole-trader tax waayyyyyy before any deadline; but HMRC does not provide receipts for that in the way that a P60 is a receipt.) So it all just feels bleak.

Would this count as currently being self-employed or would it count as being unemployed until the contact started?

When did you leave your salaried position? Just trying to think if there's a way around having to make this more difficult (I.E. have you only just left that job?)

Also you 100% DO NOT need to take the english test if you're a US citizen, I PROMISE you. It will not turn out to be the need. Please try not to get sucked into a loop of negativity (I know it's hard when you're stressed and it doesn't feel straightforward). I can't comment much further regarding the tax situation, but I can say that, for certain, you will not need to take the language test.

31 May was my last day with the employer. I think I'm going to go eat some cheese and cry for a bit.

There isn't a fourth question, just the three you have in your screen cap (which is the same as what I tried to do). I don't want to lie about my education and be done for deception. My cheapest option is the test, which is fine, I'm sure I'll pass.

All I can do is offer my opinion and my opinion is that you do NOT need to take the test. Please don't take the test. It is unnecessary and a waste of money (even if it's cheap and you're confident you'll pass). Worst case scenario, if you have to put in your education because you have a degree taught in English, then do that...but You don't also need to take any English language test. Your cheapest option is to get your degree out of the box and buy a new box for it to go in.

31 May was my last day with the employer. I think I'm going to go eat some cheese and cry for a bit.

Surely, as your taxes would be dated within a month of when you're submitting your application, this means you could say you're currently unemployed but were employed as full time, salaried and they can check your taxes with your NI#??

Ksand or KF or one of the other experts, could you confirm a way around this bit? Surely the answer is not just to wait another year.....

Okay, so I’ve just gone through the application online to “fake apply”.  I’m getting the same thing.

Okay, so your diploma is framed.  Can you peel off the tape on the back of the frame carefully and remove it?  I’ve changed out photos that have been professionally framed before, so I know if you are careful this can be done.

I’m anal retentive and have a few sealed copies of my transcripts, but I realise not everyone does this. 

Also, ABSOLUTELY no need to wait a year.  After all, right now, you are unemployed.