Shouting...?

I've been accused of shouting at my husband's side of the family a few times over the years. They've taken my champagne, left rubbish for me to clear for them, insulted me for being American, and the list goes on. When I have confronted them about these issues I have always felt that I was reserved, but assertive, in discussing with them why I didn't appreciate what they did. Not once have I raised my voice or shouted (or at least what Americans consider to be "shouting.") They really don't see it that way.

My husband is always mortified when he is told I "shouted" at someone, and I always say to him, "If I was shouting, wouldn't you have heard me from where you were?" He replies, "No, not necessarily." This has me thinking that "shouting" to the English is very different to how Americans define it.

I was chatting to my friend (also American) this weekend and she's been accused of the same by her English in-laws. So, my question is, in English culture, what is "shouting"? I ask because I'm pretty sure we are speaking different languages here. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

I know you're not amused, but it is funny you brought this up.  My husband uses the term "shouting" in a way I do not understand.  I think it means speaking in an assertive and animated manner.  Not quite aggressive, but clearly expressing one's discontent.  (Showing your emotions is just Not Done!)

Remember that the British express their anger by being polite (kidding, not-kidding).  I think to do anything else is considered shouting to them.

I was thinking just the same. I have tried the “kidding” thing, and I’m told that my “sarcastic tone” wasn’t appreciated. I just can’t win. 

pssst...they probably don't like America....

Remember that the British express their anger by being polite (kidding, not-kidding).  I think to do anything else is considered shouting to them.

Here's the transcript of a fascinating podcast that covers this subject, and how the word "please" is interpreted completely different by Americans and Brits. 


https://www.theallusionist.org/transcripts/please?rq=please


Link is to the transcript for ease, listen to the audio if you can. 

The podcast itself is really good and there are a few other episodes about UK/US language differences with comments by actual academics. 

Here's the transcript of a fascinating podcast that covers this subject, and how the word "please" is interpreted completely different by Americans and Brits. 


https://www.theallusionist.org/transcripts/please?rq=please


Link is to the transcript for ease, listen to the audio if you can. 

The podcast itself is really good and there are a few other episodes about UK/US language differences with comments by actual academics. 

Thanks so much for this! I found it very interesting. 

I've been accused of shouting at my husband's side of the family a few times over the years. They've taken my champagne, left rubbish for me to clear for them, insulted me for being American, and the list goes on. When I have confronted them about these issues I have always felt that I was reserved, but assertive, in discussing with them why I didn't appreciate what they did. Not once have I raised my voice or shouted (or at least what Americans consider to be "shouting.") They really don't see it that way.

My husband is always mortified when he is told I "shouted" at someone, and I always say to him, "If I was shouting, wouldn't you have heard me from where you were?" He replies, "No, not necessarily." This has me thinking that "shouting" to the English is very different to how Americans define it.


  . Probably won’t help but I’d suggest moving to Scotland where everyone shouts  .   . I’ve always talked loud but even I’m muffled out by my cousins when they get going.  I’m half Scottish and half English , born in  Canada, and I’ve had a few Americans comment on my biting wit and sense of humor sometimes.  That’s the English blood.   The Scottish blood likes a good laugh.  It’s just something you’ll eventually learn.  Like I know in Scotland, if you accidentally bump into someone or they accidentally bump into you....an American would say excuse me or pardon me.....wrong !!!!!  Nope, you say I’m sorry....it’s just something you do without thinking because it was how you were raised.  I always laugh at myself if I go through a McDonald’s drive thru because I loose count of how many times I say please....😂😂. I start with please and end with please and then throw in a thank you for good measure....but that’s just me.  A few years ago when I was staying at my cousins, I got woken up to her shouting into the phone saying to the other person she was talking to that she wasn’t shouting and that she just couldn’t hear her.....lol.....we still have a laugh about that....I imitate her by making a Shaka sign for a phone and saying....” I’m no shouting, I’m Scottish....now get tae f***”

So probably not much help in this conversation but I hope I made you smile...😄. And you’ll probably just have to learn to deal with it because they’ll probably never change .

Here's the transcript of a fascinating podcast that covers this subject, and how the word "please" is interpreted completely different by Americans and Brits. 


https://www.theallusionist.org/transcripts/please?rq=please


Link is to the transcript for ease, listen to the audio if you can. 

The podcast itself is really good and there are a few other episodes about UK/US language differences with comments by actual academics.

That was interesting, Jimbo!  This part made me nod and giggle a little, because it's what I've been saying...

"RDF: We wouldn’t tell you to your face if we didn’t like you.
HZ: Because it’s not real politeness, is it?
LM: It depends what you mean by politeness. If what you mean by politeness is going through the motions, to smooth social interaction, then that’s as real as politeness gets. If what you mean is a sincere desire to be kind to somebody else, then maybe we need to call that something different, like friendliness or kindness or something like that."

and then at the end:

"HZ: Whereas, stereotypically, we Brits avoid being honest and straightforward. Everything has to go through at least two rounds of obfuscation. Exchanging words with other humans is an elaborate dance."

And the thing is, that dance does not allow one to express anger or upset.  To do so would be considered "shouting".

And the thing is, that dance does not allow one to express anger or upset.  To do so would be considered "shouting".

How dare we have the audactiy to express our anger and frustration! I mentioned this to my husband last night and he said that overall I've been very rude when it comes to this. I asked how British people display their anger or vent their frustrations. He stared at me blankly, and said, "Well, it's just rude."

"HZ: Whereas, stereotypically, we Brits avoid being honest and straightforward. Everything has to go through at least two rounds of obfuscation. Exchanging words with other humans is an elaborate dance."

That's beautiful! 

Not long after my now-husband and I first became friends on Facebook (at my now-FIL's suggestion, mind you!), we were talking and he mentioned that he'd asked his father about me.  I said, "Oh!  Do I want to know what he said?"  I wasn't really worried about it at the time that I asked, because I thought I was a delightful and charming human being and nobody could possibly have any objection to me.     But my now-husband said, "He said you were 'unusual and outspoken'".

I've never brought it up with my FIL, but I've been curious about it ever since.  I don't remember what I could've said or done when we met 15 years ago to leave that impression.  But maybe I didn't do anything untoward... maybe I was just being American.  (But, my FIL either studied in the US decades ago, and he travels there frequently... it's not like I'm the only American he's ever met.)

I've been told I'm "outspoken" by the English side. I sometimes feel like I'm an American time traveller from 2019 who has been sent to England in 1819.

I know when I've said something that my husband finds "inappropriate" among friends and family because he goes ghost white and looks like he's going to be sick. When he does that I know he's going to pull me aside at some point and tell me how embarassing I was. Once,  I was walking with him and his mother when I could smell a very skunky smell, if you get what I mean. Like, it was so strong you couldn't not notice it. Anyway, I mentioned how strong the smell was and neither said anything. We were already walking in silence, and that made it even more awkard. Later, my husband said how horrified he was that I brought it up and that his mother had already spoken to him about how if I know what the smell is that I must either sell it or use it. Her logic made absolutley no sense, so I thought it would be best to speak to her to provide some clarity. Of course I was accused of shouting at her.

Oh well.

On another note, one of his cousins (who was about 7 at the time) was sitting on the couch, watching her brother and cousins play football in the garden. I asked her if she'd like to play, too, and said how I knew my husband and his brothers would play with her. She said, "I can't because I'm a girl." I told her she could do anything, especially play football, and that whomever has told her that wasn't very bright. It was her father who had told her that and he was sitting with us. Needless to say, I was pulled aside by my MIL for being "outspoken."

I've been told I'm "outspoken" by the English side. I sometimes feel like I'm an American time traveller from 2019 who has been sent to England in 1819.

I know when I've said something that my husband finds "inappropriate" among friends and family because he goes ghost white and looks like he's going to be sick. When he does that I know he's going to pull me aside at some point and tell me how embarassing I was. Once,  I was walking with him and his mother when I could smell a very skunky smell, if you get what I mean. Like, it was so strong you couldn't not notice it. Anyway, I mentioned how strong the smell was and neither said anything. We were already walking in silence, and that made it even more awkard. Later, my husband said how horrified he was that I brought it up and that his mother had already spoken to him about how if I know what the smell is that I must either sell it or use it. Her logic made absolutley no sense, so I thought it would be best to speak to her to provide some clarity. Of course I was accused of shouting at her.

Oh well.

Okay, I think I see what's going on.  What you're doing "wrong" is confronting issues.  The British do not clear the air.  They don't talk about things.  They don't seek or offer clarity.  Have you ever been in an awkward situation and heard people say, "Nevermind, then."?  They mean it!  Just leave it alone.  The more you revisit a thing, the harder it is for them to ignore it, and that's all they want to do.  There are no problems.  Everything is fine.

Not confronting issues head on is definitely a difference in the cultures I think.

My wife and I met at university in the 70s and after a couple of years decided to get married. Our course tutor called me into his office one day and asked if what he’d heard was true. I confirmed that we had decided to get married over the summer before starting our final year and he danced around what he really wanted to asked until I finally cottoned onto his concern. “She isn’t pregnant if that is what you are asking”, I said. The university had never had a female electrical engineering graduate so he was worried about that!!

We graduated as a married couple the following year.

Okay, I think I see what's going on.  What you're doing "wrong" is confronting issues.  The British do not clear the air.  They don't talk about things.  They don't seek or offer clarity.  Have you ever been in an awkward situation and heard people say, "Nevermind, then."?  They mean it!  Just leave it alone.  The more you revisit a thing, the harder it is for them to ignore it, and that's all they want to do.  There are no problems.  Everything is fine.

Ah, gotcha. I'll have to remember that. Thank you 

With that particular situation she, um, thought I had a bit of a side hussle. Probably should've just let her think that.