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Topic: Ok, about the sectarian stuff  (Read 4377 times)

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Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« on: September 02, 2019, 04:55:54 PM »
So the prods/loyalists "Orange" types wanted to march over the summer, and to do so right by a Catholic church where last year one of the marchers spit on the priest. (Kudos to the cops, who did a DNA analysis on the priest's robes and caught the guy.) The Oranges were told they had to re-route and threw a fit about how their rights were being violated, and cancelled the march.  So on Friday the Catholic/Irish Unity marchers planned a march through a "Green" neighborhood. Apparently they got wind that there were Orange yobs waiting on the route, so they re-routed to avoid them. But a large mob of Oranges crashed the parade anyway, threw bottles, flares, rocks, etc., all of which were returned. Bringing out the riot police in force, for several hours. Subway shut down, buses re-routed, shops having to hurriedly pull down their shutters, etc.  On Saturday there was another one-on-one attack, up the street from us at a bus stop outside our Spar, where a guy was left seriously slashed and bleeding. Same basis, as far as has been reported. And yesterday, another bloody fight, down on Dumbarton Road. I haven't checked the papers today to see which faction has done what.

I didn't like the KKK when I was a kid in Texas, and I don't like what I'm seeing here now.  This is getting freaking old. I'm not Catholic, but it certainly seems like they have not been the ones who are starting the violence in these episodes. Orange yobs band together and show up to cause trouble. And they seem to be good at it. Unfortunately now there are Green groups that are vowing reprisals as needed.  [Sigh]

The Daughter is not sure about walking to and from work, especially when it's dark out - which is unfounded, as she's neither male nor one of those groups, and it's unlikely there'd be a fully-fledged riot materialize around her on her way to/from the shop. Wrong neighborhood for it. We're not in one of the neighborhoods where there is typically trouble, but we are sandwiched between two generically opposing ones. Plus, she's applying like crazy for other, daytime office jobs, so hopefully her days at the shop are numbered. But the fact that she's brought it up does raise the spectre of trouble. "So what do we do, Mom, if things turn bad here? Move to Edinburgh?"

An interesting question, really. We have already noticed an uptick in crime here - numerous local shops have been burgled over the summer and some attempts have been made to get into flats in the building next to ours. Several small businesses have folded. If Brexit proceeds, as it is appearing that it will, there is an awfully high "poverty" burden in Glasgow, comparatively speaking, that will be disproportionately impacted. There's only so far you can compress impoverished people before there will be a rebound, and sometimes that comes in a not very pretty way. The News is always talking about a shortage of food (often neglecting to mention that is mostly to be green veg and fruit) with Brexit. I'm thinking a shortage of French cheeses, tomatoes, and strawberries is not going to cause riots (except maybe at Waitrose). I think what would be worse would be unemployment - if people lose what income they have. You can't pay rent with "wish I could's" and landlords not getting paid their due rent can't pay their bills, either. People just scraping by are going to bleed. And if they and the surviving businesses are not paying taxes (either payroll or on purchased goods) governments will be short of cash. You can't really raise taxes at that point to try to make up the shortfall (although they well may do) without causing more pain. (I know if ours go up very far, we're outta here.) So they'll have to cut government services like rat-catching, trash collecting, free nurseries, schools, libraries, etc. Which compounds the misery of people who are already just teetering on the edge. I kind of doubt people will just sit back and continue to take it... unless they drop the tax on alcohol, and then half the city would just stay too drunk to do much. (I suspect the proportion of the population with a serious alcohol problem is already close to that at the best of times.)  ::)

But back to the question - What do we do/where do we go if things get "bad" here?  Would moving to Edinburgh, a more "genteel" city, make a difference? To the country (where services are probably strained already and there would be almost no work for the Daughter)? Do we jump to Ireland (which is going to take a nasty hit from Brexit and has much higher taxes and a serious housing shortage)? Or France (where we don't speak the language and where the Daughter would be back to the restrictive "five years as a dependent of EU citizen and can't really work more than a few hours a week until that period is over" clock again)?  Or back to the States (which is probably headed for a serious recession as it is), so that the Daughter has a better chance of getting a good professional job and not face being "the foreigner" who has applied for a given job? Assuming there are still appropriate jobs available in the States at that point?  Or do we just hunker down and wait, hoping that the government doesn't do anything that would make it untenable for us to remain (raise taxes, restrict the Daughter's working again, etc.)?

What do we do, indeed....  ???   8)  I probably should dust off the "plan B" list again, update it, and see what is still viable. I have to say, when we were planning the move over here, neither of us thought we'd be faced with this decision. I expected there would be some bumps, but not this. But that was probably due to the excessively rosy glasses we had on.  ;)  The Daughter really got sold a bill of goods by the Uni... but that's another story.  At present, I'd just settle for the Oranges to keep to Orangeland and the Greens to keep to the neighborhood of the Greens, and to not have to look at their blood (which is red regardless of whose it is) on the sidewalk on the way to lunch. Blood makes me decidedly queasy.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 05:26:00 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2019, 06:27:48 PM »
I take it your questions here are just you thinking out loud, and you're not really looking for advice from the forum on what to do.  Because no one can really tell you. 

We had a wild weekend here in Clydebank too (a predominantly Roman Catholic area), and there are still police all over the place.  As i look out my window i can see 3 police vans, and when i was walking the hound earlier, there is blue police tape and police guard in front of a close about a block away.

It sucks, but I guess I'm used to it.
I seem to recall telling you about the sectarian violence before you moved here, but then another poster thought she knew better than me, and basically told you that you'd never see anything.  On this occasion, I wish she had been right, and I had been wrong.  :\\\'(
 


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2019, 08:03:19 PM »
Yeah, just musing.

I haven't had to deal with any of it directly. It's just the insanity of it all that bothers me. And, lately, the frequency.

Then again, a guy went on a rampage with an AK47 in one of the town(s) I grew up in the other day, because he got fired from his trucking job. Got pulled over for not signaling a turn and shot a cop. Once you shoot a cop in Texas, your life is over, so he just took himself out in a "blaze of glory" by shooting people randomly as he drove down the highway until they cornered and shot him, rather than get arrested and spend 10 years in jail before they executed him.

So, it's six in one hand and half-a-dozen in the other, really. To use an old saying. The insanity is everywhere. I would be very happy living as a hermit (albeit with internet access) on a small island, with a ferry dropping supplies off once a month (or less frequently). The Daughter is entirely more gregarious, so that's not going to happen.

Right now, if she actually had a professional level job and was settled into it, and it was in Edinburgh, I'd probably up-stakes and move us there as it is a pleasant-enough place (and the buses are better and cheaper!). I'm certainly not going to move us to another city in the UK just to move us. If she doesn't get funded for the upcoming year (we'll know in December or January at the latest, I believe), and is still not working professionally, then a different reckoning will have to be done. She's looking at programs back in the USA, and would go on her own for year one if that's how it works out. If she's gone, there's nothing for me here, so I'll probably follow her on at some point. I'm rather hoping she finds work here - it's safer.

Then again, if her Irish citizenship comes through, that opens up Europe and also Ireland for her, with no work restrictions, so we'll see. They haven't said "no" yet. In fact, they asked for another document just last week, so we are to the point that someone is actually looking at her file. Perhaps we'll hear something one way or the other soon. That would help with the planning.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 08:15:40 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 07:52:34 AM »
Until I read these posts I had no idea that sectarian violence was a thing in Scotland.  It’s certainly never come up down in London, so why Scotland? 


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 03:31:19 PM »
Until I read these posts I had no idea that sectarian violence was a thing in Scotland.  It’s certainly never come up down in London, so why Scotland?

Really Jimbo?  You've never heard about Rangers & Celtic?


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 03:40:54 PM »
Large Irish population? Huge wave of Irish (Catholic) came over during/after the famine to work in the mills and factories. Not having first-hand experience, but general observation is that the Orange (which seem awfully Nazi-ish to me) are not exactly the cream of the socioeconomic crop here, either. So they are in direct "competition" with those "Fenian expletives". There were a lot of chants of "IRA, Off Our Streets" by the Orange faction at the fiasco on Friday.

The paper is talking about two upcoming Green marches and the fear of violence at them. I went on the city council's website and there are waaay more Orange marches in the next month. https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/futureprocessions?fPst=1  I have to go to City Center tomorrow. Thank goodness there's no marching tomorrow.

You know, I avoided going to Northern Ireland for the above reasons. I knew there was some social strain here in Glasgow, but I didn't realize the extent of it. I have no idea what's going on out there today, but there have been an awful lot of sirens today (more than normal). The ghettobird is flying up over Maryhill. And I think they've pulled a body out of the Kelvin River by Great Western Road. For some reason, they've shut the tube stop at Kelvinbridge down as well, which, unless there's a blood trail out of it, doesn't make a lot of sense. It seems that since Boris took over things are kicking off a lot more than before. Could just be a coincidence, or a scenario like what's happening in the States every time tRump opens his mouth....

I actually am wondering about Edinburgh - if it's more sedate? The Daughter is still looking for work, and she can look from there just as well as from here. If she's in the doctoral program here she won't have to be in to campus every day. She could take the Megabus over for very little using my Tesco points.... just kicking the idea around. 8)

« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 03:44:38 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 03:48:47 PM »
Really Jimbo?  You've never heard about Rangers & Celtic?

Not at all!  I’m guessing those are football teams?

I’m tolerant of other people’s sports in general, but I judge anyone into professional football.  It’s a bit to rapey for my tastes.


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 04:04:41 PM »


I actually am wondering about Edinburgh - if it's more sedate?

I'm not saying it's completely non-existent in Edinburgh... Hearts v Hibs... but it's a lot more diluted, and i dont remember hearing about any trouble in the 8 years i worked there and the 1 year i lived there.


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 04:17:18 PM »
Not at all!  I’m guessing those are football teams?

I’m tolerant of other people’s sports in general, but I judge anyone into professional football.  It’s a bit to rapey for my tastes.

Football is the only sport i like; the only sport i will watch.  Enjoy your judge-fest!  ;)


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2019, 06:09:10 PM »
Football is the only sport i like; the only sport i will watch.

Not even rugby?  I love a good home international!  ;D


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 06:58:45 PM »
I have never been to a rugby match. Is it fun?


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 07:10:55 PM »
I have never been to a rugby match. Is it fun?

They happen at the cold time of year so so far I have only watched on tv!  :) I keep saying I'll go one of these times though!

https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/fixtures-2020/


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 08:32:09 PM »
Football is the only sport i like; the only sport i will watch.  Enjoy your judge-fest!  ;)

I judged for 45 minutes after I read that.  Your ears must have been burning.


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 04:58:57 PM »
Not even rugby?  I love a good home international!  ;D

Egg-chasing?  No way.


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Re: Ok, about the sectarian stuff
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 05:01:31 PM »


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