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Topic: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.  (Read 3965 times)

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Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« on: November 13, 2019, 04:43:26 PM »
The Daughter got word this afternoon that the department at her uni is not putting her name forward for funding for next year. Apparently funding is not as plentiful as in the past. (Thanks, Brexit.) So, it's over. She can't sit here waiting another year doing nothing, with the chances of her ever getting funding pretty much torpedo'd by the system in place. (They want you to have some professional work and she really can't work professionally due to the EU dependent thing, which she has to stay on until there is no chance of Brexit being cancelled. So she can never get the unspoken/unwritten qualifications they look for when handing out funding.)

So, darn it, it looks very much like we will be going back to the States. It's just a matter of when. The Daughter is applying to programs to start next September, and if she gets in one she'll go and I'll stay here for a year, and then will leave early the next year.  There is no reason for me to stay here if she is not going to be here.

If she does not get into a program in the USA, we will either leave in late fall 2020 (if finances are such that it's doable) or the following spring. We will have to sort out where to go by that time.

In a sense, it's a relief. We've been hanging out in the breeze over her immigration status here and Brexit,  and if she would or would not get funding to continue her studies. While it's great to have the uncertainty over, I am still feeling very, very sad tonight. :\\\'(


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2019, 04:48:14 PM »
I'm so sorry. I'm glad you have closure but it's a hard transition for you both. Having worked in academia for most of my professional life I'm happy to help if she needs any guidance.

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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 05:22:32 PM »
Awww, Nan  :\\\'( :\\\'( :\\\'(
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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 05:27:28 PM »
That is thoroughly disappointing, but I know the effects of Brexit will be trickling down through so many industries and affecting many lives for far too long. I'm so sorry, that must be difficult for her. I hope she is able to get into the program back in the US!

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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2019, 05:46:39 PM »
I'm very sorry Nan. Is there still not that slim chance that she'll get her Irish citizenship though?


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2019, 06:57:38 PM »
It's slim. It was a "Hail Mary" try in the first place. The Minister of Justice has had the authority to waive residency requirements for special cases. We were relying on that. Her application has gotten to the "checking for suitability - moral character, etc." stage. They had requested her FBI good conduct letter, which was forwarded along with one from California. We were told she'd been cleared on that and the file was progressing. They have not phoned or otherwise contacted her references. We were expecting that to happen at any moment, actually,  back in August.

If you are of Irish associations, the Minister for Justice and Equality has absolute discretion to waive the conditions for naturalisation. Irish associations means being related by blood, affinity or adoption to an Irish citizen. https://dfa.ie/citizenship/naturalisation/

And then a judge decided to rule that the Minister of Justice did NOT have the authority to waive residency. In fact, the ruling was that if an applicant was outside the RofI for even part of a day (!!) in the year before their application they were disqualified. So if they went to Belfast for the afternoon, they are shot down. There are literally thousands and thousands of files stuck in limbo now - the Daughter's included. If they process them fully they have to disqualify anyone who was not physically present in Ireland for the 365 days prior to their application. So it's my understanding that they're just sitting on everything.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-citizenship-ruling

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Citizenship

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judgment-reserved-on-citizenship-ruling-appeal-as-judges-consider-continuous-residence-interpretation-955712.html

The MoJ appealed, and the case was heard 8 October. The judges have "reserved judgement" - which I believe means they are thinking about it. As far as I know they are STILL thinking about it.  The MoJ has requested and been given a green light by the government to propose legislation to fix this situation. But I haven't seen anything that says it's been introduced or will be introduced soon.

So, yes, it's possible her citizenship may at some point come through. She realistically can't wait, though. The deadline for the schools she's applying to is 1 Dec and 15 Dec and so she's got to get a wiggle on. The clock has run out.   :\\\'(

We are treating the remaining time we have here, whichever amount it is, as an extended vacation. If she doesn't get into a program in the States for next fall she'll go to work anyway for a few months to save up for moving expenses since the worst they could do is deport her, and that only after a lengthy back and forth. By the end of which we'd be gone anyway.

I so did not want it to turn out like this.  Oh, well. At least we got to be here for the time we've had.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 10:06:42 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2019, 07:34:45 PM »
I’m so sorry Nan. We all love you and support you no matter what happens.


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2019, 07:43:06 PM »
That's very kind of everyone. I really do appreciate the thoughts.


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2019, 08:17:44 PM »
Can she not apply for a job now that her schooling is complete?

Then apply for the next step when it’s time and see what they say?  Could be a yes, especially as they can’t point to their own policy.  Then move back if that’s unsuccessful.


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2019, 08:33:56 AM »
Very sad news Nan,  all the very best going forward.
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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2019, 09:19:44 AM »
Can she not apply for a job now that her schooling is complete?

Then apply for the next step when it’s time and see what they say?  Could be a yes, especially as they can’t point to their own policy.  Then move back if that’s unsuccessful.

She is not finished with her schooling - she still has the PhD to go. Right now she has a masters that is pretty much useless here in the job market  and that is completely useless in the USA (not considered equivalent to a USA masters) for employment. Brexit would kill any chance of her working in the EU for several years, if ever, and even without Brexit she's not qualified right now enough for what she wants to do if she could work in the EU. 

With things as they are, she can't work professionally here, which is what she really needs to be doing. She's still here on the Adult Dependent Child of an EU citizen papers. (She has to have that status to get in-country/EU tuition fees. If she has any income, the Uni funding considers her no longer a dependent and international tuition and fees would kick in. An unseen "Catch 22" as the unis are allowed to interpret the rules as they see fit.) We also are still warned by legal advisors that she should remain dependent to have her be safely in the country as EU, regardless of the EU Settlement Scheme letter saying she can work. If they reverse Brexit, and she was out of status she'd be potentially screwed and subject to deportation. 

She's had enough of that - it's been three years of her life she won't get back, waiting to know and just flapping in the breeze as the rules change around her. She seems tremendously relieved now, just having the uncertainty removed. And Brexit can go screw itself. (Further.)

Just being on this tight-wire has taken a toll on her, and having worked at the grocery store for the last year has given her a view of the culture here that she would not have seen had she remained associating only with academics every day. She says it was eye-opening, and she was miserable.  So, even if things settled favorably with the work permissions, working here is a non-starter outside of academia or in a job allied with her studies. She is not wanting to go back to being a typist or receptionist at minimum wage and spending the rest of her life just getting by, trying to work herself up the career ladder again - not here, anyway.

Bottom line: although she's admitted to the PhD program here, if they won't fund her there's no reason for  her to stay. I could keep her housed and fed, and actually could pay the fees for her (assuming they don't change their minds again and re-classify her as an International student), but she says no. She was thinking that if she didn't get accepted to a program in the USA she would stay and do the funded degree here as a backup, but she has been giving it a lot of thought and looking hard at what getting the degree from here in her present circumstances would do for her, and frankly it's literally almost nothing.  She says she'd be better off just going back to the USA and getting any job at all (with a retirement plan and medical insurance).

There is no teaching involved in the doctoral degree here - no classes for her to be taking. She would get no experience teaching classes, either. She would basically be working on her one research project and at the end writing it up. And paying the university fees for three years for being able to have access to the faculty for guidance on the project and to get her final dissertation published. (That would be closing on £20,000 by the end.) That degree program would not give her the education a doctoral program in the USA would do. The academic  programs she's applying to in the States are five to six years long (fully funded) and with at least two full years of taught courses involved, plus the opportunity to work on research projects (and publish) and to teach. And that's pretty much the only way to be employable as an academic in the USA - those items are critical.  She is hopeful that one of them would accept her. There is one that is exceptionally promising right now, so fingers are crossed they choose her. It may well be that she has to go back and do a two-year  masters in the USA to be competitive for those PhD programs, as a lot of them are telling her they favor applicants with masters degrees. (Hers from here doesn't really count as one there - it's like half of one.) She's willing to do that.

So, that's it. She no longer wants to be here - there's no reason for her to be here, and she has a very convincing argument for why she'd be better off (in or out of school) in the USA. She just wants to get on with her life. There's no reason for me to be here if she's not here. I can always move back later, if I wish. She says that unless it was to work in her field, she would have no reason to move back even if she could, unless it was to look after me when I was elderly. Which I do not want her to have to do.  So.... I will spend the remaining time here doing all the things I thought I was going to do but never got around to doing. And doing the logistics and research necessary to make this happen. (That'll keep me busy for a while!)

I'm glad I had the chance to live here and experience life here. But it's time for us to go home (or, it will be, when I can properly pay for it).
« Last Edit: November 14, 2019, 10:07:46 PM by Nan D. »


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2019, 10:03:55 AM »
Sorry to hear that.....but if you love it so much here , why don’t you stay.  I’m assuming your daughter is in her mid twenties......do you really need to live with her?  Or her with you?  Not trying to be snarky or anything, just trying to understand why you don’t stay if you want to unless your daughter needs you for a place to live while she’s attending school..... but eventually she’ll be all grown up , and on her own,  starting her own family and it would be sad to think you gave up what could have been your happiness just to follow her back to the states if you didn’t need to. 

I honestly mean no disrespect by what I’ve written, just trying to wrap my head around it.  I was 4 years old when my mother left and my dad had to raise a 4, 6 and 9 year by himself at the age of 51 years old.  Believe me, I grew up fast.  There was no coddling involved.  But he raised us to be independent and take care of ourselves.....that was 48 years ago.  I find today kids have way to much done for them ......so they don’t learn to do things for themselves because mommy or daddy does it for them......American kids really are very spoiled.....I remember seeing another thread on here once talking about the difference between teens in the uk and the us and the raising of them....I believe it was Jim who commented along the lines at how in the UK 16 year olds will go on vacation to Greece with their pals on holidays by themselves....no parental supervision......my 17 year old cousins did that with her pals a few years back......yet, a couple of months ago there was a story on the news here about how a 16 year old was flying unaccompanied and the airline didn’t make the proper transfer of the child at the airport to their next gate and they missed their flight and it was a big todo....seriously......if your 16 year old can’t figure out how to make a flight connection at an airport, I hope that all sharp objects are kept away from this kid so they can’t hurt themselves  ::)

Anyway.....hope things work out for you......but by the sounds of it ....your heart really belongs in Scotland and it would be a shame for you to leave and give up your happiness if you really didn’t have too.....because sometimes no matter how much we want to, we just can’t go back..... :\\\'(


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2019, 10:11:16 AM »
American kids really are very spoiled.....

Trust me, it's that way on both sides of the pond.  Here they coddle, coddle, coddle, BOOM, DONE!  It's bizarre in it's own way.

Basically us parents screw it up no matter what country we are in.  ;D


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2019, 07:56:41 PM »
So, that's it. She no longer wants to be here - there's no reason for her to be here, and she has a very convincing argument for why she'd be better off (in or out of school) in the USA. She just wants to get on with her life. There's no reason for me to be here if she's not here. I can always move back later, if I wish. She says that unless it was to work in her field, she would have no reason to move back even if she could, unless it was to look after me when I was elderly. Which I do not want her to have to do.  So.... I will spend the remaining time here doing all the things I thought I was going to do but never got around to doing. And doing the logistics and research necessary to make this happen. (That'll keep me busy for a while!)

Still,  a bummer in the long run. 8) That little house in the big garden out in Argyll, with the trees on the hill behind it, will probably stay with me forever. I could have been happy living there, puttering in the garden, and riding a bicycle into the village now and then to get a quart of milk and a newspaper. I could see myself living the rest of my life out there, really.  I'm glad I had the chance to live here and experience life here. But it's time for us to go home (or, it will be, when I can properly pay for it).

Oh, Nan.. this is so sad... :\\\'(


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Re: Ah, well. It was wonderful while it lasted.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2019, 08:14:10 PM »
That sucks so much Nan. So sorry   :\\\'(
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