COVID19 - How it's affecting you

Back  to CPR -

It can vary.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/485389

Not to get quibbly, but the data in that study is 30 years old.

All patients 18 years and older experiencing in-hospital CPR from December 1983 through November 1991 at Marshfield Medical Center (Marshfield Clinic and adjoining St Joseph's Hospital), Marshfield, Wis, were selected.

Yeah, and they mentioned that their outcome wasn't necessarily reflective of nearby hospitals (if I remember it correctly - have been doing other things).  The point being, there is no "one" number. It depends. There may be an "overall" number (as in a mathematical average), but it can vary across institutions. 

Time to start sewing....

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/02/health/aerosol-coronavirus-spread-white-house-letter/index.html

 (CNN)A prestigious scientific panel told the White House Wednesday night that research shows coronavirus can be spread not just by sneezes or coughs, but also just by talking, or possibly even just breathing. "While the current [coronavirus] specific research is limited, the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," according to the letter, written by Dr. Harvey Fineberg, chairman of a committee with the National Academy of Sciences.

Fineberg told CNN that he will wear start wearing a mask when he goes to the grocery store. "I'm not going to wear a surgical mask, because clinicians need those," said Fineberg, former dean of the Harvard School of Public Health. "But I have a nice western-style bandana I might wear. Or I have a balaclava. I have some pretty nice options."

[For those not familiar, the National Academy of Sciences are some of the top brains going, pretty much, in the USA. You have to be significantly advanced in your career as a scientist and have a significant body of important work on your CV to be inducted into the group.]

There was a choir in Washington State (I think - might have been Oregon?) where nobody had symptoms. They all went to choir practice. But someone was a carrier, and there are now dead choir members and most of the rest of the choir is ill. While singing does have you expelling a lot more air from your lungs than a normal conversation, who's taking chances?

I believe I read somewhere that cotton t-shirt material will block 75% of aerosolized particles that are actually smaller than the Covid. So I would assume a double layer would be a good idea. It won't be as good as a N-95 mask, but healthcare providers need those.  I believe I read that vacuum cleaner bags filter more thoroughly, but it's difficult to breath through a vacuum cleaner bag. It's also difficult to breathe comfortably through a lot of synthetics for significant periods of time. Cotton you can throw in a screaming hot washing machine with bleach.

Here's some interesting news I saw coming:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-people-recover-could-issued-immunity-certificates-211600496.html

This will be really interesting, we might have two groups in society, the innies and the outies.  The innies won't have had the virus and must stay inside while the outies can go out as they like, work and live a normal life.  I can already forsee people trying to get infected so they can get on with their lives. 

This will be really interesting, we might have two groups in society, the innies and the outies.  The innies won't have had the virus and must stay inside while the outies can go out as they like, work and live a normal life.  I can already forsee people trying to get infected so they can get on with their lives.

Yeap, exactly

Here's some interesting news I saw coming:
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-people-recover-could-issued-immunity-certificates-211600496.html

This will be really interesting, we might have two groups in society, the innies and the outies.  The innies won't have had the virus and must stay inside while the outies can go out as they like, work and live a normal life.  I can already forsee people trying to get infected so they can get on with their lives.

Yeah, I think that will breach human rights legislation. And be another "f u" to disabled people.

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When the antibody tests are available, Hancock said, the government was looking at the possibility of issuing immunity certificates, so that some of the population “can get back to work as much as possible”.

However, some critics fear that this could lead to resentment in the population who have not had the virus, and that people might even deliberately try to get infected in order to obtain an immunity certificate.

Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, told the Guardian that immunity certificates for frontline medical workers would be crucial for allowing staff to return to work and allowing personal protective equipment to be rationed in the safest way.

However, in the wider population, fraud could be an issue, which could rule out home-based testing, and there were concerns about unintended consequences. “People going out to deliberately get infected so they could get back to work is a concern and I don’t know how you’d avoid that,” he said. “Those are big issues.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/02/no-10-seeks-to-end-covid-19-lockdown-with-immunity-passports

It kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it?

People risking death so they can get back to work.

It kind of boggles the mind, doesn't it?

People risking death so they can get back to work.

I’d consider risking my death at %1 failure rate but if everyone does it then it is garunteed more NHS deaths overall. Seems pretty selfish at a group level but sensible for the individual. 

  I can already forsee people trying to get infected so they can get on with their lives.

I can see that happening too but they really would be playing Russian roulette with their lives.. . will it be mild or will it be fatal? No way of knowing as it stands.  And statistics don't matter a bit if you happen to be the one person in however many thousands who ends up dying from it.

Our plan is to sit tight and wait for the vaccine. That's the point that I am looking forward to!

I’d consider risking my death at %1 failure rate but if everyone does it then it is garunteed more NHS deaths overall. Seems pretty selfish at a group level but sensible for the individual.

My point being, and sorry if this wasn't really clear - I forget people are not mind-readers, was that it boggles the mind that this situation exists at all.

Will be interesting to see what the Queen says.  sh*t is really real when the Queen comes out and makes an address to the Nation.

I am really hopeful for my MIL.  If she can prove she’s had the virus at 76 with cancer and come out the other side, she can actually get out and ENJOY her life! 

But yes, I hope Queenie gives a speech along these lines:

I'm still extremely disappointed with the way Sainsbury's and all of the grocery stores managed this, but because I was able to check the boxes on the Gov online form for multiple conditions that would make me extremely vulnerable to Covid-19 I now have access for grocery delivery. There is tons of availability once you get permission to book. Sainsbury's really needs to scale up their customer service team and have a Web chat or Internet form because there are still so many who need access and don't have it (because blind and mobility challenged people weren't covered by the "vulnerable" list, and not all of them can use phones). *sigh* But that's a huge stress lifted for the next couple months so we can hunker down and hopefully not end up hospitalised. Once this is over I am going to change where we shop.

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Ummm, about masks. The WHO has been arguing against them. Apparently they've been using 30 year old studies to support that.

A very senior aerosol chemist (as in scientist, not pharmacist) I respect highly has recently stated:  "The issue is WHO has been basing their 6 ft guidance on research done in the 1930's before instruments could detect tiny aerosol particles. It has since been shown in the published literature that people infected with a virus can exhale small aerosol particles that do not settle out within 6 ft--they can float around for hours. Note these are emitted into the air without coughing. With coughs, much bigger droplets are expelled that do settle out quickly.  Right now, there is a large fraction of people that are infected and do not have any symptoms. So, if they are surfing or running along the beach, they could be exhaling tiny infectious aerosol particles. Even indoors, when talking or singing, an infected person will be expelling out these tiny particles that float around. This week the National Academy sent a letter to the White House advising them that it is likely this virus is getting into the air in aerosols and thus one should factor this into social distancing considerations. This is the place where masks can help as they have been shown to filter out this and other viruses effectively.

So wearing masks should have a large effect as we move forward. I was very relieved to see this added to the guidelines put in place that started last night. If you look at countries that have worn masks when they are sick traditionally (Taiwan, Japan..), their number of cases was much smaller-in other words, their curves were much flatter. Most of their residents wore masks almost immediately. They also instituted other helpful measures very quickly.

So how far a distance is enough when outdoors? The good news is outdoors the air gets diluted quickly. The best analogy is to think of a smoker walking in front of you--if you want to avoid the exhaled smoke plume (virus aerosols will follow the same path), you carve a pretty big path. The same applies here. No one knows the infectious dose for this virus--we will not know it for a while. So, it is best to error on the side of caution -- and much better to be safe than sorry. It is important to get out and exercise. I still take walks but I keep my distance as much as possible. " 

Now, the fact that we can only get homemade ones, really, aside, this info also means it would be wise to avoid elevators and enclosed areas where people have been recently unless you do wear some sort of mask. And six feet of distance between bodies probably isn't actually going to cut it.