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Topic: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted  (Read 2493 times)

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Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:03:50 AM »
Only a short visit - my back is playing up and won't let me sit in front of a computer for long at all. But...

What the hell is wrong with Boris!?! (Or is just that he's English?  ;)  ) He goes on nations-wide TV and radio and gives a message that is counter to that of the three other (devolved) governments, telling people "in the UK" to get back to it. Without having even consulted the heads of the other three governments. Wow.  :o

from CNN [abridged, and condensed, underlines mine, snipping away extra text]:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/10/uk/uk-coronavirus-lockdown-boris-johnson-gbr-intl/index.html

London (CNN)Boris Johnson called on people across the UK on Sunday to return to work if they cannot do so from home, as the Prime Minister laid out his vision for gradually restarting the economy. The government's previous stance was that people should only go to work "if they must," Johnson said. "We now need to stress that anyone who can't work from home, for instance those in construction or manufacturing, should be actively encouraged to go to work."  Also from Wednesday, people in the UK will be able to sunbathe in their local parks, exercise as much as they want and drive to other destinations, he said.

In a pre-recorded televised statement on Sunday evening, Johnson unveiled a road map to resuming activity in the country following more than six weeks under lockdown. He characterized his plan as a cautious balance between keeping new infections down while easing the economic burden the pandemic has had on millions in the UK. Until Johnson's announcement, residents whose jobs were considered non-essential were advised to leave home only for local exercise once a day and to buy food or medicine. "From this Wednesday we want to encourage people to take more and even unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise," he said, adding that social distancing measures would stay in place. "You can sit in the sun in your local park, you can drive to other destinations, you can even play sports but only with members of your own household."

...snip...
 
Keir Starmer, the leader of the main opposition Labour Party, said that Johnson's statement lacked the clarity the nation was looking for. "The basic message, stay alert, just isn't clear enough and the Prime Minister's statement raises just as many questions as it answers," he said in remarks to the BBC. "I think there are real problems here. Basically, those that can't work at home are being told to go to work tomorrow. That's millions of people and that means go to work in about 12 hours' time, mixed with the message that if it's possible to do so, don't use public transport -- that's quite a thing to spring on people for tomorrow morning."

...snip...

The government's new messaging and advice has also put it at odds with the United Kingdom's smaller three nations. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland have extended their lockdowns to May 28 and officials from all three nations said there had been no coordination between their governments and Downing Street over the new messaging, and they would continue to spread the "stay home" message among their own people.

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, who described Johnson's new slogan as "vague and imprecise," said on Sunday that people in her nation could begin exercising more than once a day from Monday, but all other lockdown rules would be retained. "I have asked the UK government not to deploy their 'Stay Alert' advertising campaign in Scotland, because the message at this stage in Scotland is ... except for the essential reasons you know about, stay at home," Sturgeon said Sunday. "We must not squander our progress by easing up too soon, or by sending mixed messages that result in people thinking it's okay to ease up now. Let me be very blunt about the consequences if we were to do that: people will die unnecessarily. We must not take that risk," she added.

The United Kingdom is one of the world's hardest-hit nations in the pandemic. More than 31,000 people have died, according to government data. In his address, Johnson sought to present the plan as one with the backing of the kingdom's four nations, saying he had "consulted across the political spectrum, across all four nations of the UK."  "I believe that, as Prime Minister of the UK -- Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland -- there is a strong resolve to defeat this together and today, a general consensus on what we could do," he said.

...snip...

His lack of details on what measures might be relaxed spurred a flurry of speculation in British media. The suggestions that Monday may bring new freedoms appears to have emboldened people in London: hundreds were photographed in parks sunbathing and having picnics as sunny weather tempted them to break lockdown rules over the weekend. Police said they were forced to disperse groups drinking beer and wine, and sharing pizza.


Aside from the spike in cases that all the public gatherings is going to cause... springing "go back to work tomorrow" on people who rely on public transport, but not having a safe way for them to take public transport? Or speaking as if this is a direction for the entire UK when he doesn't have the authority to do that (aka the other three have the devolved power), and without bothering to consult with the other three governments?  Especially when the BBC blares news like this out across all four countries, and only puts in very small text (if at all) that it only applies to England?

Perhaps the Covid has messed with his mental faculties. Otherwise, this is a rather spectacular demonstration of very poor judgement. Or an attempt to undercut the power of the devolved governments. Any way I see it, so far, it looks bad.

(Yes, I like the color purple.)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2020, 11:06:23 AM by Nan D. »


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2020, 11:57:00 AM »
In NYC they've been keeping track of deaths for employees of the MTA, it was at 80 in the last article I read for it. They need to make sure the transit employees are safe first and foremost before any other returns to work can happen. He's in a race to the bottom and following the lead of the republicans in the US, and I'd say its bordering on genocide at this point to so willfully ignore the scientists, public health leaders, and world health organisation.

No one wants to hear it but there are so many unknowns from Covid-19. I have a friend still battling and just hospitalised 50 days after catching it from her kids, who caught it at school from an aide who had travelled to Italy and never stayed home. To send people back to work is to willingly kill and maim (with lasting disability related to Covid-19) so many more.

Also welcome back Nan! I hope your back starts feeling better soon.

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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2020, 01:31:40 PM »
Glad to see you, Nan!  ;D
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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2020, 01:45:00 PM »
It’s a total cluster!!! Sigh.... :\\\'( :\\\'( :\\\'( :\\\'(

Glad to see you Nan!
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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2020, 04:30:15 PM »
When DO people go back to work? All I see is people saying it is too early (and it might be, I sure don't know). So if you know that it is too early, you also know the point at which it is time to go back to work. What is that point? I think things are going to have to get things going before too much longer, you can't close things until nobody has the virus......it's going to be around and zapping people for a LONG time.
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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 04:38:33 PM »
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't....

These are hard decisions to make. I believe Boris and his government are trying their absolute best. 


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2020, 04:53:52 PM »
When DO people go back to work? All I see is people saying it is too early (and it might be, I sure don't know). So if you know that it is too early, you also know the point at which it is time to go back to work. What is that point? I think things are going to have to get things going before too much longer, you can't close things until nobody has the virus......it's going to be around and zapping people for a LONG time.

I’ve heard a lot of parents say they won’t send their kids back to school until September.  I want to know what’s going to happen between June and September so that people feel okay then?

Until there is a vaccine, we are going to just have to go slow and pivot if numbers begin to increase. 


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2020, 05:04:13 PM »
They are damned if they do and damned if they don't....

These are hard decisions to make. I believe Boris and his government are trying their absolute best.

Yeah, for Boris and his ilk.  ;)

Seriously, telling people in three countries other than his own that he's consulted with their leaders, who approve of his plans, without actually having done that? Wow, that's a baby Trump move if I've ever seen one. It's called "blatant lie."  Oh, well. He doesn't seem himself - perhaps the Covid did rattle his frontal lobes a bit.

You know, there may never be a vaccine. Which is a scary thought. There may be things they throw out there for trials that may seem to work, but for how long? They don't even know if there's any lasting immunity from having caught Covid. And if it mutates, it could be for the better or for the much worse.

Eventually people will have to go back to work, yes. But there needs to be systems in place to facilitate that. Right now there are none. Because the virus will be out there - it's not going to be eradicated like smallpox. And once we are back out there we will be just as susceptible to it as we are now. The only thing we've done so far is keep the numbers down so that the healthcare systems can manage the infections (barely). I believe that was always the plan - which is logical, since they missed the opportunity to stamp it out before it went wild. Since they still don't have a proper testing scheme set up (I read that they sent 50,000 tests to the USA to be evaluated because they couldn't do them in the UK), they are never going to be able to keep a close track of where it is and do much in the way of preemptive action.  They're just going to have to hope the healthcare system can keep up with the infections when they start to skyrocket as restrictions are lifted. Which they will.

I think I saw this in a movie once, didn't I? "The Stand"?

Yeah, glad to be back. Blown disc is acting up. Had trouble getting up the three steps to the lobby of my building, though I'm doing better on the flat and level. Can't sit for long, though. So I won't be on here much.  Hope you guys are all staying safe.


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2020, 05:08:47 PM »
I’ve heard a lot of parents say they won’t send their kids back to school until September.  I want to know what’s going to happen between June and September so that people feel okay then?
Until there is a vaccine, we are going to just have to go slow and pivot if numbers begin to increase. 
Yes....this.

You need to make the best decision for yourselves....like always. Even with a vaccine, IFFFF there is a vaccine, it likely won't work for everybody. With regular flu shots they say it reduces the chance of flu from 40-60%, but even people with the shot still get it. This virus is likely around for a long long time. I think there are some people who think that there will be a "cure" and it will then be gone. That's what Trump thinks.....
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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2020, 07:19:40 PM »
I really don't understand how we can send people back to work/school when we don't even have the PPE needed for the NHS now. Things shouldn't be close to normal until our doctors, teachers, and bus drivers (and so on) are able to work without risking the death of themselves and their families. That seems so fundamental and missed by so many. I dunno. We have the highest death rate in Europe from pure incompetence, they could have quarantined people and cancelled large events in the beginning and didn't. Loosening any rules now doesn't seem smart.

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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2020, 08:21:30 AM »

These are hard decisions to make. I believe Boris and his government are trying their absolute best.

they might be trying their best, but their best is nowhere near good enough.  Utter incompetence.


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2020, 11:19:28 AM »
Just for you Nan, I've included a helpful summary of current govt advice:
Just so everyone’s clear:

* 4 year olds can go to school, but university students who have paid for the tuition they haven’t had and the accommodation they aren’t living in, can’t go to university.

* A teacher can go to school with many 4 year olds that they are not related to, but can’t see one 4 year old that they are related to.

* You can sit in a park, but not today or Tuesday but by Wednesday that’ll be fine.

* You can meet one person from another household for a chat or to sunbathe, but not two people so if you know two people from another household you have to pick your favourite. Hopefully, you’re also their favourite person from your household or this could be awkward. But possibly you’re not. But as I can’t go closer than 2m to the one you choose anyway you wouldn’t think having the other one sat next to them would matter - unless two people would restrict your eyeline too much and prevent you from being alert.

* You can work all day with your colleagues, but you can’t sit in their garden for a chat after work.

* You can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day feels like you are some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn’t one of them.

* You can drive to other destinations, although which destinations is unclear.

* The buses are still running past your house, but you shouldn’t get on one. We should just let empty buses drive around so bus drivers aren’t doing nothing.

* It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air... but not yet. It’s too soon. And not ever if you’re coming from France because... well, I don’t know why, actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn’t come to the UK maybe.

* Our youngest children go back to school first because... they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

* We are somewhere in between 3.5 and 4.5 on a five point scale where 5 is all of the virus and 1 is none of the virus but 2,3 and 4 can be anything you’d like it to be really. Some of the virus? A bit of the virus? Just enough virus to see off those over 70s who were told to self isolate but now we’ve realised that they’ve done that a bit too well despite us offloading coronavirus patients into care homes and now we are claiming that was never said in the first place, even though it’s in writing in the stay at home guidance.

* The slogan isn’t stay at home any more, so we don’t have to stay at home. Except we do. Unless we can’t. In which case we should go out. But there will be fines if we break the rules. So don’t do that.

Don’t forget...

Stay alert... which Robert Jenrick has explained actually means Stay home as much as possible. Obviously.

Control the virus. Well, I can’t even control my cats and I can actually see them. Plus I know a bit about cats and very little about controlling viruses.

Save lives. Always preferable to not saving lives, I’d say, so I’ll try my best with that one, although hopefully I don’t need telling to do that. I know I’m bragging now but not NOT saving lives is something I do every day.

So there you are. If you’re the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously.


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2020, 11:27:09 AM »
Jimbo, that absolutely nails it!
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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2020, 11:45:46 AM »
But of course that helpful guidance is not applicable in Scotland, so ...  ::)


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Re: Actually, no, restrictions are NOT lifted
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2020, 03:31:38 PM »
It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air... but not yet. It’s too soon. And not ever if you’re coming from France because... well, I don’t know why, actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn’t come to the UK maybe.

This one kills me.  Same with Ireland.  So people just fly into those 2 countries and then the UK.  Ummmmmm....

But yeah, that’s pretty awesome.  Seriously they need to let a comedian read the policies before they issue them!  Then they will see the error of their ways.   ;D


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