ILR Application question, please help!!!

Hi there. I am starting a 10 year residence application (ILR) and this question came up : Do you currently have an application with the Home Office for leave to remain for which you have not yet received a decision?

Do I say yes, if I have applied in April for my second FMR(M) extension and still haven't submitted biometrics etc as offices still closed. So technically it's a YES, but I don't want to be waiting for a decision on that visa anymore, as I am eligible for ILR now.

OR do I leave it and say NO?

If someone knows, could you PLEASE help out, as I can't continue with the application as its the first question and it really stresses me out..
Could someone clarify please, if anyone has any knowledge on this

Thanks in advance guys x

I didn't answer your question when you posted it before because I didn't know what the answer was.

Thinking about it now, I believe that you need to say YES, because you have paid for and submitted an application for leave to remain, and the details of that application are currently in their system.

The issue I see with saying NO is that if your previous visa has now expired, then you are only legal in the UK right now because you have a valid application pending in the system (your FLR(M) status has been extended via 3C Leave)

So, if you say NO, then how can you prove that you are legally in the UK right now and therefore that you are making a valid application for ILR? Because if you say you don't have an application pending, you will have to show you have a current, valid visa... but you don't, because I assume your visa expired in April.

Also, the biometrics offices are now open and they are contacting everyone by email in application date order, to let them know that they are either allowed make their biometrics appointment now, or that they are eligible to forego giving biometrics for their application and only need to upload a new photo.

Have you had an email from them yet regarding your FLR(M) biometrics? I believe they are working their way through the applications submitted in May at the moment. For info, someone else on the forum who applied for FLR(M) on 24th March was able to book their biometrics appointment a couple of weeks ago and are attending it today.

I didn't answer your question when you posted it before because I didn't know what the answer was.

Thinking about it now, I believe that you need to say YES, because you have paid for and submitted an application for leave to remain, and the details of that application are currently in their system.

The issue I see with saying NO is that if your previous visa has now expired, then you are only legal in the UK right now because you have a valid application pending in the system (your FLR(M) status has been extended via 3C Leave)

So, if you say NO, then how can you prove that you are legally in the UK right now and therefore that you are making a valid application for ILR? Because if you say you don't have an application pending, you will have to show you have a current, valid visa... but you don't, because I assume your visa expired in April.

Also, the biometrics offices are now open and they are contacting everyone by email in application date order, to let them know that they are either allowed make their biometrics appointment now, or that they are eligible to forego giving biometrics for their application and only need to upload a new photo.

Have you had an email from them yet regarding your FLR(M) biometrics? I believe they are working their way through the applications submitted in May at the moment. For info, someone else on the forum who applied for FLR(M) on 24th March was able to book their biometrics appointment a couple of weeks ago and are attending it today.

Thank you so much KSAND24!
I think its best to say YES too. And yes, I have received an email from Home Office, where they say I am eligible for their "new approach" - taking a picture of myself and them reusing my existing finger prints without attending a biometrics appointment? They said I'd have to wait for their email within the next few weeks fr them to let me know of the next steps, but nothing so far. What I also don't understand is, do we wait for their email to then book Sopra Steria document upload appointment? As I have not uploaded mine yet.

Thank you for your help so much, Panicking over here.

Thank you so much KSAND24!
I think its best to say YES too. And yes, I have received an email from Home Office, where they say I am eligible to take a picture of myself without attending a biometrics appointment? They said I'd have to wait for their email within the next few weeks, but nothing so far. What I also don't understand is, do we wait for their email to then book Sopra Steria document upload appointment? As I have not uploaded mine yet.

If you have been told you do not need to attend a biometrics appointment, then you will not be attending any kind of appointment with Sopra Steria at all (the whole point is so that they can process the application without you attending an appointment in any form - also, you can only upload documents at an actual biometrics appointment)

Instead, you will need to upload all your documents at home yourself. In some cases, UKVI have been asking people to submit some of their documents directly to them by email.

How and when are you planning to amend your application from FLR(M) to ILR?

Here is what the 3C Leave guidance says about application amendments/variations:

Variation applications during section 3C leave
This section explains how a variation application is to be treated while leave is extended by section 3C of the Immigration Act 1971 (“section 3C leave”).

A variation application can seek to vary the:
• length of time for which the person is permitted to remain in the UK
• the condition attached to the leave
• the purpose for which the person is permitted to remain in the UK

While the person’s leave is extended by section 3C they cannot make a new application for variation of leave. This is because Section 3C (4) states:v‘A person may not make an application for variation of his leave to enter or remain invthe United Kingdom while that leave is extended by this section.”

However, section 3C (5) does allow the person to amend their existing application at any time before it is decided by the Secretary of State. The application to amend the existing application has to be a valid application. Where there is a difference in the fee between the initial variation application and the amended application any additional fee must be paid.

Example
The initial variation application is for an extension of PBS leave. Before that application is decided, the applicant makes an application for leave under the family route. The family route application will amend the initial application. The higher family route fee must be paid before the application is valid. The application for an extension of PBS leave will no longer be considered.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/771652/3C-3D-Leave-v9.0ext.pdf

How and when are you planning to amend your application from FLR(M) to ILR?

Here is what the 3C Leave guidance says about application amendments/variations:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/771652/3C-3D-Leave-v9.0ext.pdf

Thanks for this KSAND24.
I am eligible to apply for ILR from 10th of August 2020. I first entered the UK on the 5th of Sept 2010. So if I'm allowed to apply 28 earlier, it would be 9th of august. I have my Life in the UK test booked for 4th of August and have most docs ready. (what I assume would be needed, really hard to find out the info on this online).

Do you know if I have to complete any other forms/applications to do this variation of leave? Or do I simply start a new application for 10 years continuous lawful residence  in the UK? that's what confuses me at the moment. And If I do submit my new ILR application, will I still be protected by the 3C Leave?

Thank you so much for your help, I really appreciate it.

If you have been told you do not need to attend a biometrics appointment, then you will not be attending any kind of appointment with Sopra Steria at all (the whole point is so that they can process the application without you attending an appointment in any form - also, you can only upload documents at an actual biometrics appointment)

Instead, you will need to upload all your documents at home yourself. In some cases, UKVI have been asking people to submit some of their documents directly to them by email.

Would you advice to wait for Home Office's  further emails - then upload all the docs using sopra steria? I haven't uploaded just yet, as I wanted to book for the staff to upload it for me at the centre, in case I got anything wrong. But if I do it myself, should I do it now?

Do you know if I have to complete any other forms/applications to do this variation of leave? Or do I simply start a new application for 10 years continuous lawful residence  in the UK? that's what confuses me at the moment. And If I do submit my new ILR application, will I still be protected by the 3C Leave?

It sounds like you just have to apply for ILR and when you have paid the higher fee for it, the ILR application will automatically become a variation of the FLR(M) application, but your application date for it will remain 15th April. I don't know what will happen to the fees you paid for the FLR(M) (it might be refunded? The IHS surcharge should be refunded at least, if the ILR is approved)

You can have a look here too:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/760916/applications-for-leave-to-remain-v2.0-ext.pdf

However, I don't have any experience with people doing this, so I'm not confident in my answer at all. It might be a good idea to speak to an immigration lawyer, to make sure you are doing it correctly. We recommend Beth at Medivisas (based in London).

Alternatively, your other option is that you just let your FLR(M) application be processed and approved, and then apply for ILR in a few months... though, of course, that means paying more overall.

Would you advice to wait for Home Office's  further emails - then upload all the docs using sopra steria? I haven't uploaded just yet, as I wanted to book for the staff to upload it for me at the centre, in case I got anything wrong. But if I do it myself, should I do it now?

My first reaction was to say that you should upload now... but you may also need to think about timing for ILR... because what happens if things move more quickly than expected and your FLR(M) is approved before you qualify to apply for ILR?

We had someone who applied for their visa in February, had their biometrics in early June, and they got their visa within about 10 days of biometrics.

My first reaction was to say that you should upload now... but you may also need to think about timing for ILR... because what happens if things move more quickly than expected and your FLR(M) is approved before you qualify to apply for ILR?

We had someone who applied for their visa in February, had their biometrics in early June, and they got their visa within about 10 days of biometrics.

Wow, it got processed so quick?
I would still want to apply for my ILR asap even if I receive my FLR(M) visa. Home Office sent that email about beginning of July and said to wait for further email that will give me the next steps. I assume they wouldn't process my visa/ look through docs before they email me with further steps? May be when they do, I'd upload everything? As I have everything ready in a folder.

Would you advice to wait for Home Office's  further emails - then upload all the docs using sopra steria? I haven't uploaded just yet, as I wanted to book for the staff to upload it for me at the centre, in case I got anything wrong. But if I do it myself, should I do it now?

The other problem might be that you don't want your FLR(M) application to become invalid as that would mean your 3c protection ended when your last visa did. Have a read of the guidance ksands linked to.

You also have to vary your application, not withdraw your FLR(M),  to keep your Section 3c protection from when your last visa expired.

However, I don't have any experience with people doing this, so I'm not confident in my answer at all. It might be a good idea to speak to an immigration lawyer, to make sure you are doing it correctly. We recommend Beth at Medivisas (based in London).

Alternatively, your other option is that you just let your FLR(M) application be processed and approved, and then apply for ILR in a few months... though, of course, that means paying more overall.

I agree. I'm fairly sure there is a way to keep your 3c protection while you vary to ILR, but you need somebody with experience of how to do this,.

The other problem might be that you don't want your FLR(M) application to become invalid as that would mean your 3c protection ended when your last visa did. Have a read of the guidance ksands linked to.

You also have to vary your application, not withdraw your FLR(M),  to keep your Section 3c protection from when your last visa expired.

I agree. I'm fairly sure there is a way to keep your 3c protection while you vary to ILR, but you need somebody with experience of how to do this,.

Thanks for this. I have booked a consultation with a solicitor to double check everything.

This is what I found on the link KSAND24 sent me. Exactly my situation.

Example scenario 1
An applicant submits application A in time. They then submit application B before application A has been decided, but after the applicant’s leave has expired when the applicant transitioned to 3C leave.
 
As the applicant transitioned to 3C leave and a decision has not yet been made on application A, application B is automatically considered as a variation of application A. The date of application is the date application A was submitted.

and then this about withdrawals:

If a person has transitioned onto section 3C leave and withdraws their application, 3C only comes to an end on the date the application is withdrawn.

But the question is, doesn't the applicant get protected by the 3C leave when he/she submits a new Application B (ILR) ? As it said, that when you submit a new application, the application is automatically considered as a variation. KSAND24 you were right. Would be strange if an applicant isn't automatically protected by 3C leave when submits a new application and their leave has expired.

But the question is, doesn't the applicant get protected by the 3C leave when he/she submits a new Application B (ILR) ? As it said, that when you submit a new application, the application is automatically considered as a variation. KSAND24 you were right. Would be strange if an applicant isn't automatically protected by 3C leave when submits a new application and their leave has expired.

As far as I can tell, the applicant should be protected by 3C Leave... because the only thing that has changed is the type of visa applied for within the processing window.

However, I think you need to be careful about how exactly you go about applying for the ILR - hence the recommendation to contact an immigration solicitor... because what you don't want to happen is that you accidentally submit something incorrectly which invalidates both applications, meaning you could end up with no visa at all, your 3C Leave cancelled and you find you have to leave the UK.

Personally, I think the safest thing to do would be to not apply for ILR yet and just let the FLR(M) application be processed as normal without trying to vary the application. Then, once you have the FLR(M), you can apply for ILR at any time in the next 2.5 years, without worrying about 3C Leave or time constraints.

Of course, you may not wish to do that, so in that case, I would definitely talk to the solicitor to make sure you do everything correctly .

But the question is, doesn't the applicant get protected by the 3C leave when he/she submits a new Application B (ILR) ? As it said, that when you submit a new application, the application is automatically considered as a variation. KSAND24 you were right. Would be strange if an applicant isn't automatically protected by 3C leave when submits a new application and their leave has expired.

Yes varying the application is different to withdrawing an application. But I was thinking more about how long you had to submit your documents for your FLR(M) visa before that becomes invalid?

The rules changed to now having invalid applications so that an invalid application is treated as if the person never submitted an application at all. This came in because of the all the abuse used to try to reach 10 years of lawful stay for ILR, by using 3c.

Another part of that was to put in for visas they would never get and keep appealing to the various courts each time their appeal failed, until those rights were exhaused. Then they put in another application for a visa they would never get, all the time using 3c. Drag that all on for years and then they had 10 years of lawfull stay for ILR. The rules had to change for that too and now all appeals are outside of the UK.

The rules changes to stop this behaviour using 3c, catches out the genuine people too, which is why you have to be so careful.

As far as I can tell, the applicant should be protected by 3C Leave... because the only thing that has changed is the type of visa applied for within the processing window.

However, I think you need to be careful about how exactly you go about applying for the ILR - hence the recommendation to contact an immigration solicitor... because what you don't want to happen is that you accidentally submit something incorrectly which invalidates both applications, meaning you could end up with no visa at all, your 3C Leave cancelled and you find you have to leave the UK.

Personally, I think the safest thing to do would be to not apply for ILR yet and just let the FLR(M) application be processed as normal without trying to vary the application. Then, once you have the FLR(M), you can apply for ILR at any time in the next 2.5 years, without worrying about 3C Leave or time constraints.

Of course, you may not wish to do that, so in that case, I would definitely talk to the solicitor to make sure you do everything correctly .

I have an appointment with a solicitor on Thursday afternoon. Will ask him all the questions regarding the 3C leave and varying the application without withdrawing the FLR(M). Also will ask about the document list. Hoping the solicitor will give me some good info on this, so may be I could apply myself. Thanks guys for letting me know. If varying the application is tricky, then I guess I could wait for for the decision for my FLR(M) and then apply for my ILR.

Yes varying the application is different to withdrawing an application. But I was thinking more about how long you had to submit your documents for your FLR(M) visa before that becomes invalid?

The rules changed to now having invalid applications so that an invalid application is treated as if the person never submitted an application at all. This came in because of the all the abuse used to try to reach 10 years of lawful stay for ILR, by using 3c.

Another part of that was to put in for visas they would never get and keep appealing to the various courts each time their appeal failed, until those rights were exhaused. Then they put in another application for a visa they would never get, all the time using 3c. Drag that all on for years and then they had 10 years of lawfull stay for ILR. The rules had to change for that too and now all appeals are outside of the UK.

The rules changes to stop this behaviour using 3c, catches out the genuine people too, which is why you have to be so careful.

Wow that's insane.. I think my old visa was finishing 17th of April but I submitted it on the 3rd of April... That does make any difference?
I'm unsure whether I should upload my docs for FLR(M) yet or not.. as I'm still waiting for a follow up email from home office.
Hoping to hear some good news on Thursday