Hello
Guest

Sponsored Links


Topic: COVID  (Read 79381 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

  • *
  • Posts: 5798

  • Liked: 713
  • Joined: Sep 2015
Re: COVID
« Reply #420 on: April 13, 2021, 12:10:09 AM »
Actually, it can be ordered in certain circumstances. From a post at Duke.edu ##:

Actually, as a matter of constitutional law, even civilians can be obliged to take a vaccine (see e.g., here*).  Nevertheless, despite the absence of a constitutional bar, Congress has enacted federal statutes that do complicate things.

In our guest post today, Army Judge Advocate Major Whitney L. Wiles unpacks the legal architecture for us.  In doing so, she discusses 10 U.S.C. § 1107a which apparently is the “federal law” DoD references.  In situations involving vaccinations with only “emergency use” authorization, that statute requires “informed consent” – which military members can withhold. 

But those requirements can be waived.  The law does, however, oblige President Biden to first find that waiving the “informed consent” process (that currently permits military members to refuse the vaccine) is in the “interests of national security.”  To date he has not made that determination, and – to my knowledge – Secretary Austin has not asked him to do so.


## https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2021/02/18/can-troops-be-ordered-to-take-the-covid-vaccine-a-guest-post-analyzes-the-law/
*https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/


  • *
  • Posts: 4191

  • Liked: 766
  • Joined: Nov 2012
  • Location: Eee, bah gum.
Re: COVID
« Reply #421 on: April 13, 2021, 08:46:15 AM »
No vaccine, even fully licenced, has ever been mandated for the general population in the UK so it won’t happen any time soon in the USA. When it comes to employers then that is different which is why the US military for example can mandate vaccines as a requirement for employment.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


  • *
  • Posts: 5798

  • Liked: 713
  • Joined: Sep 2015
Re: COVID
« Reply #422 on: April 13, 2021, 02:03:58 PM »
Due to the variety of regional cultures, if the decision is left to the states (which it must be in this system), there will be some that would  and some that would not require the Covid vaccine, eventually. I suspect relatively few would, actually. And there'll be serious howling and court challenges if they did.  Back in the 1800s, they did make vaccinations for smallpox mandatory in some parts of the USA.  Polio vaccine was widely mandated for all children quickly after it was developed - if they didn't have it, they were not allowed to attend school. (I think that one is still in effect.) I know that in at least two states in which I have lived, if children are not immunized against measles, pertussis, and, I think, diptheria the same applies - no shots, no school. There were exceptions for kids with medical reasons. In one place I lived for a while there used to be allowances for religious beliefs, but I think they've recently eliminated that. Parents can circumvent the requirements quite often by home-schooling or moving to a different state that allows exceptions on religious or personal grounds. Of course, if the kids eventually want to go to University, they're screwed in that case - I don't know of any that do not require full immunization of students for the major historical diseases like polio/measles, etc.

I don't know of a lot of mandates for vaccinating adults, historically, though. There will never be a federal vaccine order impacting civilians (that can be enforced) - the governmental system doesn't work that way here. It'll be up to the individual states to enact. (Interesting discussion  - https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/guides-pubs/downloads/vacc_mandates_chptr13.pdf )

Employers can require employees be vaccinated in the USA. (It's already been through the courts). My former employer is doing just that - you can't set foot on the property without being vaccinated against Covid, as an employee. All the students... there is no requirement that I know of, yet, that the students be vaccinated. So I guess they just don't want to have to hire and train new staff if the existing staff had to take time off work or be let go if they used up their "time off" allowance. Knowing my ex-employer, the $$$ is the bottom line. They would have to hire temps to fill in, and the jobs tend to be a bit esoteric so you either have to pay premium to get someone who is actually competent, or (as is usually the case) you get a minimum-wager without prior training and just kind of limp by. There's a critical mass of those kind of employees they have to avoid if they want to keep the place a going concern, though. Hence, the staff vaccination requirement. (Or, that's my guess on it, anyway.) There are always plenty of students waving money, wanting to get into the school, so they are of less concern.

Major difference in the UK and USA in the above - the UK has a centralized government that has pretty much unlimited power to decree and enforce (devolution complicates, but only marginally). The USA's federal government has that power in some instances, but not nearly as broadly. The individual states here have much more control over the minutiae of life.

But as to my original post: My issue is with the military. They really do need to get those guys vaccinated and if it takes a formal order, they need to do that ASAP. Otherwise, in time of need (and one never knows when that could happen) we could theoretically find that we have half the military strength we need. I wouldn't want to think about it ripping through, for example, the drone control room in Kansas (or wherever it is) and the second or third-string trainees having to be brought in to manage all that in time of war. Or flying a warbird armed with God only knows what. Etc.

[The Ukraine issue is looking a little iffy again, lately.]
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 02:10:06 PM by Nan D. »


  • *
  • Posts: 4191

  • Liked: 766
  • Joined: Nov 2012
  • Location: Eee, bah gum.
Re: COVID
« Reply #423 on: April 13, 2021, 02:46:06 PM »
Jeffrey sat in a chair for 2 hours today. Only on CPAP an hour at a time now, including overnight. He texted at 4am my time asking advice on downloading podcasts and such and we chatted for an hour, at which point I told him that it was 9am in LA so I was transferring him to our US help desk (his sister). We had taken his good headphones into the hospital for him at 7:30 last night. He is now going to be moved back to the regular Covid ward later today.

It's all good news.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


  • *
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 16326

  • Also known as PB&J ;-)
  • Liked: 855
  • Joined: Sep 2007
  • Location: :-D
Re: COVID
« Reply #424 on: April 13, 2021, 02:50:44 PM »
Awesome news Durhamlad!
I've never gotten food on my underpants!
Work permit (2007) to British Citizen (2014)
You're stuck with me!


  • *
  • Posts: 1213

  • Liked: 240
  • Joined: Mar 2018
  • Location: Scotland
Re: COVID
« Reply #425 on: April 13, 2021, 02:52:05 PM »
Wonderful news @durhamlad! So glad he is improving.
UK Spouse Visa (Priority)
Approved: 1 May 2018

FLR(M) Standard
Approved: 16 June 2021

ILR (SET M) Super Priority
Approved: 29 August 2023


  • *
  • Posts: 18239

  • Liked: 4993
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Wokingham
Re: COVID
« Reply #426 on: April 13, 2021, 02:54:24 PM »
Jeffrey sat in a chair for 2 hours today. Only on CPAP an hour at a time now, including overnight. He texted at 4am my time asking advice on downloading podcasts and such and we chatted for an hour, at which point I told him that it was 9am in LA so I was transferring him to our US help desk (his sister). We had taken his good headphones into the hospital for him at 7:30 last night. He is now going to be moved back to the regular Covid ward later today.

It's all good news.

Not going to lie, I check frequently for an update!

Durhamlad, does Jeffrey realise the roller coaster ride he has sent us all on.  ;D  I’m so pleased he called at 4am for podcast tech support. A week ago, you would have not dared to dream that would happen!

Glad tech support was already open on the west coast. I bet they were happy to take over! 

Any idea when you may be able to touch him!  Yes, I’m getting ahead of myself!


  • *
  • Posts: 4191

  • Liked: 766
  • Joined: Nov 2012
  • Location: Eee, bah gum.
Re: COVID
« Reply #427 on: April 13, 2021, 03:00:17 PM »
Not going to lie, I check frequently for an update!

Durhamlad, does Jeffrey realise the roller coaster ride he has sent us all on.  ;D  I’m so pleased he called at 4am for podcast tech support. A week ago, you would have not dared to dream that would happen!

Glad tech support was already open on the west coast. I bet they were happy to take over! 

Any idea when you may be able to touch him!  Yes, I’m getting ahead of myself!

He has blown away by the messages of support I have been passing on, including from you wonderful folks here. 

It is still a roller coaster ride and we expect more ups and downs. Don't know when we can touch him, but it won't be until he is released from hospital and no prediction for that since Covid is such an unpredictable infection. He will continue to be on CPAP from time to time to help keep his stats up even back in the regular Covid ward.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


  • *
  • Posts: 17769

  • Liked: 6118
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: COVID
« Reply #428 on: April 13, 2021, 05:33:13 PM »
Jeffrey sat in a chair for 2 hours today. Only on CPAP an hour at a time now, including overnight. He texted at 4am my time asking advice on downloading podcasts and such and we chatted for an hour, at which point I told him that it was 9am in LA so I was transferring him to our US help desk (his sister). We had taken his good headphones into the hospital for him at 7:30 last night. He is now going to be moved back to the regular Covid ward later today.

It's all good news.

Awesome news @durhamlad ! I'm so happy things are looking up.  :)


  • *
  • Posts: 4474

  • Liked: 973
  • Joined: Apr 2016
Re: COVID
« Reply #429 on: April 13, 2021, 08:29:36 PM »
So glad he is on his way to the normal covid floor. I know there will likely be more ups and downs, but every step forward is good!


  • *
  • Posts: 4191

  • Liked: 766
  • Joined: Nov 2012
  • Location: Eee, bah gum.
Re: COVID
« Reply #430 on: April 14, 2021, 08:35:46 AM »
We talked on the phone at 7am this morning and he actually sounded normal, no gasping for breath, which is the first time that has happened since he went in. He asked us to bring in a few supplies such as his own toothbrush and toothpaste, nail clippers etc.

Still on oxygen but can’t tell how much as he can’t see any displays like he could in ICU. Still too weak to get himself out of bed and across his room to one of his chairs, but he has managed to keep down water and some ice cream last night even though he still feels nauseous.

I won’t bother you good folks with daily updates any more, you have all been wonderful support, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 It will be a week or so before he’s home if he continues his good progress.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


  • *
  • Posts: 17769

  • Liked: 6118
  • Joined: Sep 2010
Re: COVID
« Reply #431 on: April 14, 2021, 08:42:47 AM »
We talked on the phone at 7am this morning and he actually sounded normal, no gasping for breath, which is the first time that has happened since he went in. He asked us to bring in a few supplies such as his own toothbrush and toothpaste, nail clippers etc.

Still on oxygen but can’t tell how much as he can’t see any displays like he could in ICU. Still too weak to get himself out of bed and across his room to one of his chairs, but he has managed to keep down water and some ice cream last night even though he still feels nauseous.

I won’t bother you good folks with daily updates any more, you have all been wonderful support, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 It will be a week or so before he’s home if he continues his good progress.

I'm sure I can speak for all of us when I say we look forward to these updates and it's in no way a bother! But completely understand that you are going to have your hands full now, looking after his needs and preparing for his discharge. :)


  • *
  • Posts: 18239

  • Liked: 4993
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Location: Wokingham
Re: COVID
« Reply #432 on: April 14, 2021, 09:10:13 AM »
I'm sure I can speak for all of us when I say we look forward to these updates and it's in no way a bother! But completely understand that you are going to have your hands full now, looking after his needs and preparing for his discharge. :)


This!


  • *
  • Posts: 6174

  • Liked: 1327
  • Joined: Aug 2012
  • Location: End of the M4 and then a bit more.
Re: COVID
« Reply #433 on: April 14, 2021, 09:37:15 AM »
I'm sure I can speak for all of us when I say we look forward to these updates and it's in no way a bother! But completely understand that you are going to have your hands full now, looking after his needs and preparing for his discharge. :)

Yes, I concur.  If you can be bothered, we welcome the updates and the opportunity to celebrate his improvements.  But, as larrabee acknowledged, your family's needs obviously come first.
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


  • *
  • Posts: 3118

  • Liked: 388
  • Joined: Feb 2010
  • Location: London
Re: COVID
« Reply #434 on: April 14, 2021, 09:48:03 AM »
Please don't think you are "bothering" us with updates!  I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been celebrating with you with each good bit of news.  :)  For me personally, it's been emotional as I'm on a similar journey, and like to be able to cheer on others on similar roads and celebrate any and all collective wins against this sh!t disease.

I only ask that you focus on what you need to do for you and your family (mental, emotional, physical health) and don't worry about not updating us or anything like that.  If you need to go offline for a few days to take care of you, please do!


Sponsored Links





 

coloured_drab