Leaving UK and Returning as means to extend stay

I concur with most of the above.  Come home. Put in your paperwork, and wait it out over here. It would mean being away from your S.O., but with a greatly enhanced chance of being able to go back to the UK permanently. Things there will not be pleasant at all for some time, and the NHS is overstretched. If you need emergency care (at least in Scotland) as a foreigner you'll get it, but non-emergency care will need to be paid for.  If you are caught overstaying, you are putting it all on the line. And it's not a friendly administration towards immigrants there now.

Medical care in the UK, even if you have to pay for it, is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying out-of-pocket in the USA, but how much you will be able to actually get if needed in the UK...? If you have no insurance in the USA you're in the same boat - they have to treat you until you are stable at all public (usually county) hospitals, if you can pay or not, but only in cases of emergency care. If you then get stuck with a huge bill you are looking at bankruptcy - which rolls off your credit report in 10 years and can play havoc with getting apartments/jobs/loans until then. (It's a fair trade for lifesaving treatment, but you do have to figure it into the balance.)  It's not unheard of for patients who cannot pay but who need non-emergency hospital care to be wheeled out to the street in their hospital gown and left there on their own. (It's not supposed to happen, but it does.)  Unless you qualify for Medicaid, and the qualifications for the vary from state to state, or have private insurance,  you really need to have several tens-of-thousands of dollars held back for possible major medical expenses.

The Covid R rating is increasing in the USA, as it is almost everywhere, and you'll deal with it here or deal with it there. There are still pockets here where it's relatively low, if you have the option to target your landing. (NY State, for example, but it is still rising here as well.)

If you fly, avoid BA/American. Delta is doing head-and-shoulders above the BA/AA franchise in safe travel. The only way we could get a flight back at the end of August was to fly a commuter flight to Amsterdam and pick up the Delta flight there.

Whatever you do, travel as if you are in a war-zone, because you are. Be very, very careful about where you go and who you are around, and what you touch.

Best wishes....

Nan, this is rather dramatic.  We are not at war.  Have you seen war?  We are talking about two very privileged first world countries.  Anti immigration?  You betcha.  But it’s highly unlikely the OP is going to be faced with war.  Just a refused application if she breaks the rules.  And for all intents and purposes, she’s posting here to ensure she does NOT put her future in jeopardy. 

We’ve all suggested that as she will have saved the money for the visa as soon as Lockdown 2.0 is lifted that she sorts her visa then.

1) Fly home
2) Grab grenades and sand bags
3) Make application

(Just some banter  )

You must return at some point to apply for a visa.  There is no way around that.  Why not just knock it on the head and be done? Get your visa!

I would like to go once I have the money in hand. That is why. but will obviously do what I need to. Was just weighing options. Thanks

As Margo stated already, if you continue to stay and take that risk and potentially are caught oit as either overstaying or trying to unlawfully live in the UK without a visa, you do put yourself at risk to get your visa and stay legally. Not worth the risk for me nor would i every suggest anybody try to get close to skirting the rules as all it will do is shoot yourself in the foot. Agree with KF as well. If you can do it, it'll make your life that much easier. We all had to do it and we get how frustrating it is but you cant really get around it (and it'll likely only get more frustrating with brexit as i wouldn't be surprised if they did an overhaul on the immigration process in general)

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Yes ofcourse. That was why I asked. I wanted to know if it would be counted as an overstay or not.
Sorry if this was not clear in my original question. 

If you will have enough money for the fiance visa and flights to the US by December, and you won't be leaving the UK until early January anyway, why not just fly back to the US and apply for the fiance visa right away in January? You could prepare all the documents and the online application while you're here, so that you're ready to submit the online application as soon as you arrive back in the US.

I'm not sure I see the point in trying to spend another 6 months here as a visitor, without being able to work or legally live here, when you could just apply for the fiance visa in January and then move here legally a few weeks/couple of months later.

Nah, I was thinking if I needed an extra week or two to secure the money. Never dreamed of more than that. But also not necessary at all. Just wondered how it would look.
sorry my question was not more clear. 
But do I really need to be gone 6 months if I was here 6 months? I was hoping for maybe 2 or 3 months and then come back and marry within 2 months.
How would they see that?
Thanks

Actually they won't put you on a flight back to the USA at your own cost.  They will force you to return to France, as that's where you would be entering from!  So then you'll literally be stuck somewhere you don't have a place to stay (unless you do have a place to stay of course).

Completely agree.  As you say you'll have the money to apply in December and are okay until January, just get it done!  Then you can live peacefully for the next 5 years of visas knowing that you did what you had to do without causing any extra headaches. 

Yikes! That sounds awful!
Was hoping I will have the money in December. lol  but worst that can happen is I apply later and my fiance has to send updated paperwork.
My only income is alimony but my ex has covid, so no payment for Nov.  But it will work out one way or another...

I concur with most of the above.  Come home. Put in your paperwork, and wait it out over here. It would mean being away from your S.O., but with a greatly enhanced chance of being able to go back to the UK permanently. Things there will not be pleasant at all for some time, and the NHS is overstretched. If you need emergency care (at least in Scotland) as a foreigner you'll get it, but non-emergency care will need to be paid for.  If you are caught overstaying, you are putting it all on the line. And it's not a friendly administration towards immigrants there now.

Medical care in the UK, even if you have to pay for it, is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying out-of-pocket in the USA, but how much you will be able to actually get if needed in the UK...? If you have no insurance in the USA you're in the same boat - they have to treat you until you are stable at all public (usually county) hospitals, if you can pay or not, but only in cases of emergency care. If you then get stuck with a huge bill you are looking at bankruptcy - which rolls off your credit report in 10 years and can play havoc with getting apartments/jobs/loans until then. (It's a fair trade for lifesaving treatment, but you do have to figure it into the balance.)  It's not unheard of for patients who cannot pay but who need non-emergency hospital care to be wheeled out to the street in their hospital gown and left there on their own. (It's not supposed to happen, but it does.)  Unless you qualify for Medicaid, and the qualifications for the vary from state to state, or have private insurance,  you really need to have several tens-of-thousands of dollars held back for possible major medical expenses.

The Covid R rating is increasing in the USA, as it is almost everywhere, and you'll deal with it here or deal with it there. There are still pockets here where it's relatively low, if you have the option to target your landing. (NY State, for example, but it is still rising here as well.)

If you fly, avoid BA/American. Delta is doing head-and-shoulders above the BA/AA franchise in safe travel. The only way we could get a flight back at the end of August was to fly a commuter flight to Amsterdam and pick up the Delta flight there.

Whatever you do, travel as if you are in a war-zone, because you are. Be very, very careful about where you go and who you are around, and what you touch.

Best wishes....

I'm not sure where the medical talk entered the picture, but thank you
I plan to leave after Christmas and return when able to marry.  (hopefully that is okay - I had no idea I had to be gone for as long as I was here. That was my original question really but never got said I guess... 

Strange as it sounds, just overstaying doesn't appear to affect a family visa, although other things can e.g. working, not paying when using the  NHS, deception, frivoulous and vexatious visa applications etc  However, overstaying can affect British citizenship.

Interesting.Basically I left my ex because I was getting suicidal from the abuse and I have been here since. Thought I could do paperwork and attend biometrics and return when done to marry. (and out of interest to anyone, we've known each other since 1994)
So I have no concrete ties to the US other than my Hawaiian driver's license and bank card with the same address. No job or home etc

It can impact it in that it will very likely become a not straight forward application which can take longer to process

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Are you saying that because I have been here (about 4 months so far) that they will want to take longer that the 6 weeks I pay for to do my application?
I am confused.  Thanks
Maybe I should leave asap. . .
I had no idea they looked at that...

Yes ofcourse. That was why I asked. I wanted to know if it would be counted as an overstay or not.
Sorry if this was not clear in my original question. 

As long as you leave the UK within the 6 months allowed by your visitor visa, you would not have overstayed.

However, the issue is with trying to return for another stay right away... because that will likely look like you are trying to use the visitor visa to 'live' in the UK, which is not allowed.... and so there's a good chance that you would be turned away at the border and not let back into the UK (this is not an overstay, just a refusal of entry).

If you were to be let back in again, then you would be allowed to stay for the length of time that the immigration officer gives you permission to stay... usually this is 6 months, but it is at their discretion. If they feel you are an overstay risk or that you are using the visitor visa to live in the UK, they can let you in for as little as 1-2 days, or maybe a few weeks - and they might keep your passport to make sure you leave on time. It would depend on their decision on the day.

But do I really need to be gone 6 months if I was here 6 months? I was hoping for maybe 2 or 3 months and then come back and marry within 2 months.
How would they see that?

There's no definite rule, but ideally you want to be spending MORE time outside the UK than inside the UK. Because they will look to see exactly how much time you have spent in the UK in the last 12 months and how much more time you are trying to stay for and use that to determine if you are attempting to 'live' in the UK.

If you have already been in the UK for the last 6 months and then you ask to come back in for another 2-3 months, that would be a total of 8-9 months spent in the UK in the last 12 months... and only 3-4 months spent outside the UK. Therefore they may well determine that you are trying to spend too much time in the UK compared to the US.

But, if you were to wait say, 7 months to come back as a visitor, then you would have spent 6 months in the UK and 7 months in the US... so, more time in the US than the UK in the last 12 months, which doesn't look so much like you are trying to live in the UK as a visitor.

Bear in mind though, that this does NOT apply to fiance or spousal visas, as those visas allow you to legally live in the UK. So if you were to leave the UK in January and apply for the fiance visa right away, you can come back as soon as you get it... no need to wait.

What they look at when making the decision as to whether you have spent too much time in the UK:

Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an applicant is making the UK their main home or place of work
See: paragraph V 4.2(b) of appendix V: visitor rules.

You should check the applicant’s travel history, including how long they are spending in the UK and how frequently they are returning. You must assess if they are, in effect, making the UK their main home.
You should look at:
• the purpose of the visit and intended length of stay stated
• the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country
• the purpose of return trips to the visitor’s home country and if this is used only to seek re-entry to the UK
• the links they have with their home country - consider especially any long-term commitments and where the applicant is registered for tax purposes
• evidence the UK is their main place of residence, for example:
o if they have registered with a general practitioner (GP)
o if they send their children to UK schools
• the history of previous applications, for example if the visitor has previously been refused under the family rules and subsequently wants to enter as a visitor you must assess if they are using the visitor route to avoid the rules in place for family migrants joining British or settled persons in the UK

There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. However, if it is clear from an individual’s travel history that they are making the UK their home you should refuse their application.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/827480/Visit-guidance-v9.0ext.pdf

Also, might I add, we're in lockdown. Now is the perfect time to get back to the US while legally nobody can leave the house (excluding the obvious exceptions). You're not missing out on anything except for your partner.

You'll be stealing A LOT from your potential future for a short term gain. It's not worth it.

Is there somewhere I can read about staying on a passport and returning to marry?
I just thought it would look good because it shows we are in a real relationship.
 I don't mean leaving and returning but just being here in the first place.
I had no idea or I would have taken it into consideration from the beginning.
Thanks!

Are you saying that because I have been here (about 4 months so far) that they will want to take longer that the 6 weeks I pay for to do my application?
I am confused.  Thanks
Maybe I should leave asap. . .
I had no idea they looked at that...

No, that's not what they are saying.

You are allowed to stay here for the full 6 months you were given as a visitor when you arrived.

What makes an application non-straightforward is if you have any of the following on your immigration record:
- a refused entry, if you leave and try to come back but they don't let you in
- a refused visa, if you make an application for a visa and it is refused
- illegal working/studying in the UK
- illegal overstaying in the UK (i.e. if you do not leave within the 6 months of your visitor visa)
Plus a few other things like, using deception in an application, using false documents in an application etc.

So, they are advising that once you leave in January, you don't attempt to come back in immediately, because that could lead to a refused entry... and a refused entry could make your fiance visa application non-straightforward.

Do bear in mind though, that even if you do pay for the Settlement Priority Service, that does NOT guarantee a decision within 6 weeks. You may get a decision within that time, but if they are busy or there are delays due to Covid, or you have a non-straightforward application, it can take longer.

The processing standards time for fiance visas is:
- 95% processed within 12 weeks
- 100% processed within 24 weeks

Yes ofcourse. That was why I asked. I wanted to know if it would be counted as an overstay or not.
Sorry if this was not clear in my original question. 

No sorry the point i was trying to get across is that you wouldn't necessarily be over staying as such (e.g. staying 6 months and 1 day) by leaving and coming back but they could deny you entry for trying to live here unlawfully by spending more time in the UK than outside of it . If you're denied entry, you are then no longer a straightforward application. It's a total risk and can come completely down to luck of which person happens to be deciding your fate on that day and how they interpret your actions. You might be fine or you might be on the first flight back to france.

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Nan, this is rather dramatic.  We are not at war.  Have you seen war?  We are talking about two very privileged first world countries.  Anti immigration?  You betcha.  But it’s highly unlikely the OP is going to be faced with war.  Just a refused application if she breaks the rules.  And for all intents and purposes, she’s posting here to ensure she does NOT put her future in jeopardy. 

We’ve all suggested that as she will have saved the money for the visa as soon as Lockdown 2.0 is lifted that she sorts her visa then.

It's rather deadly. And yes, we are in a war with the virus. To think we are not is rather... delusional, really. An invisible enemy, yes. Probably more deadly because of that status.  Reference C2 at https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/war

Have I seen actual combat? No. Have I seen the fallout from actual combat? Yes. Have I had family die from combat? Yes. Have I had family die from Covid? Yes.   Have I seen the morgue trailers from the inside? Thankfully no. From the outside, yes. Have I spoken with people working on "the front lines" of the Covid epidemic? Yes. Is it a war? Yes, it is.

If the OP does travel, they need to be extremely careful of their environment and with whom they associate.

I'm not sure where the medical talk entered the picture, but thank you
I plan to leave after Christmas and return when able to marry.  (hopefully that is okay - I had no idea I had to be gone for as long as I was here. That was my original question really but never got said I guess... 

Hi, sorry. That was in conjuction with « Reply #9 on: November 08, 2020, 01:50:26 PM »

Your needing to use the NHS or having to use US healthcare, and was generically meant not only for you but a wider audience. I'm sure you already know the cost of healthcare in the USA. Not sure you knew the cost of healthcare in the UK, etc.