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Topic: Monzo and FBAR  (Read 2051 times)

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Monzo and FBAR
« on: February 26, 2021, 01:34:14 AM »
In the US there is a requirement to file a yearly FBAR if you have a total of greater than $10k USD in all of your foreign accounts.  If I have just one Monzo account (with greater than $10 USD in pounds) during the year do I need to file an FBAR?  i.e., is Monzo considered a foreign bank?


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2021, 06:24:42 AM »
In the US there is a requirement to file a yearly FBAR if you have a total of greater than $10k USD in all of your foreign accounts.  If I have just one Monzo account (with greater than $10 USD in pounds) during the year do I need to file an FBAR?  i.e., is Monzo considered a foreign bank?

Monzo is based in the UK so is a foreign bank and you will declare your highest balance on your FBAR if you need to file. If you have more than $10,000 in your Monzo account, you will need to file.


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2021, 08:16:03 AM »
I was told by my accountant to declare my Revolut account.  Curiously, I was also told to leave off my tiny amount of bitcoin. 


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2021, 11:12:38 AM »
Monzo is based in the UK so is a foreign bank and you will declare your highest balance on your FBAR if you need to file. If you have more than $10,000 in your Monzo account, you will need to file.

This sounds right to me.  Doing an FBAR is pretty simple and quick, no cost but the fines are very high for non-reporting  so I would do an FBAR for an account that you have any doubts over.
Dual USC/UKC living in the UK since May 2016


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2021, 05:47:33 PM »
Curiously, I was also told to leave off my tiny amount of bitcoin. 

Currently, virtual currency is not reportable, but FinCEN released a notice on 31 December stating they intend to start having virtual currency reportable on FBAR. No start date as of yet. Tell your accountant to stand by......

https://americanexpatfinance.com/tax/item/649-irs-cryptocurrency-accounts-to-include-in-fbars

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/Notice-Virtual%20Currency%20Reporting%20on%20the%20FBAR%20123020.pdf


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2021, 12:01:24 AM »
Curiously, I was also told to leave off my tiny amount of bitcoin. 

Currently, virtual currency is not reportable, but FinCEN released a notice on 31 December stating they intend to start having virtual currency reportable on FBAR. No start date as of yet. Tell your accountant to stand by......

https://americanexpatfinance.com/tax/item/649-irs-cryptocurrency-accounts-to-include-in-fbars

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/Notice-Virtual%20Currency%20Reporting%20on%20the%20FBAR%20123020.pdf

I don't have any crypto-currency, or even a wallet, but it's my understanding that the thing some people value it for is the privacy/untraceability of it... so, uh... am I wrong about that?  And if I'm not wrong, how would a governnent investigate a failure to report?  I don't see how this can work.  Granted, I don't know a whole lot about how crypto wallets work.
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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2021, 10:43:44 AM »
Currently, virtual currency is not reportable, but FinCEN released a notice on 31 December stating they intend to start having virtual currency reportable on FBAR. No start date as of yet. Tell your accountant to stand by......

https://americanexpatfinance.com/tax/item/649-irs-cryptocurrency-accounts-to-include-in-fbars

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/Notice-Virtual%20Currency%20Reporting%20on%20the%20FBAR%20123020.pdf


I don't have any crypto-currency, or even a wallet, but it's my understanding that the thing some people value it for is the privacy/untraceability of it... so, uh... am I wrong about that?  And if I'm not wrong, how would a governnent investigate a failure to report?  I don't see how this can work.  Granted, I don't know a whole lot about how crypto wallets work.
I think it would be roughly analogous to a bank that refuses to provide the US with a list of it's customers.  If the customers don't list it and the bank doesn't tell, then it would be hard to investigate a failure to report. 

I believe "untraceable" is not exactly the right word for bitcoin.  There's a ledger that lists every bitcoin transfer ever made, from what wallet to what wallet, that's all the blockchain is.  So if you can somehow link a person with a wallet, you can trace all kinds of things.  For example, there's a bunch of bitcoins that people think belong to the mysterious inventor, and if those ever started being transferred it would be a big deal.   By the way, I don't really know much about bitcoin so some of the things I said might be wrong. 


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Re: Monzo and FBAR
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2021, 11:28:02 AM »
I don't have any crypto-currency, or even a wallet, but it's my understanding that the thing some people value it for is the privacy/untraceability of it... so, uh... am I wrong about that?  And if I'm not wrong, how would a governnent investigate a failure to report?  I don't see how this can work.  Granted, I don't know a whole lot about how crypto wallets work.

Good question.

I would guess FinCEN/IRS are looking for a penalty bonanza from audits on High Net Worth individuals. Much of the $10Bn attributed to FATCA came from the penalties imposed for not reporting on 1040, Sch. B, 8938 and FBAR. As we know, for FBAR, it's $10,000 per year per account, although I believe several US courts have limited, in specific cases, the total to $10,000/year. As Jimbo said, there could be ways of discovering the amounts: for example someone cashing out and depositing into a bank account.

This year (2020 return) there is a question on 1040: "At any time during 2020, did you receive, sell, send, exchange, or otherwise acquire any financial interest in any virtual currency?". If it just sat there for the entire year, "no" will be OK, but at some point, a "yes" would have to be declared, and I imagine that stays with the taxpayer's record forever. That's the problem with the informational forms - for example: once the taxpayer declares something, and at some point they die, the IRS knows where to look for death duties.

That's the why the information forms are detested: dishonesty can yield big penalties and honesty yields a permanent record of funds for possible future taxation. And yes, I'm feeling grumpy this morning.

Being a poor, "old, non-tech" person with no mining computing power, I also know nothing about Bitcoin.

 


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