Income for UK Spouse Visa sources?

Hi,

Excuse my loose terminology. I have stopped focusing on any life in the UK and have focused on life here over the past few years so I am not completely up to speed on proper terminology but today we have been thinking of leaving.

My wife is a UK Citizen living with me here in the USA. Both of our kids have UK/USA passports. We have been married for almost 20 years at this point.

As I keep vacillating a move that seems to be made of relative unobtainium over the years, I wanted to be clear on something.

Sure I know about the pie in the sky ~62,500k pounds in a savings account that is untouched for 6 months. Sure I could do that but don't like the money being held up for 6 months for a variety of reasons beyond the scope of this post.

I then thought of income requirements of 18,600 pounds per annum. I just wanted to be sure that I have this correct because it certainly wasn't like this when I last held a spousal visa and lived in the UK with my wife back in 04-05. I know the rules have changed but didn't want to assume anything.

My wife does not work and I make great money...far beyond the annualized 18,600 requirement.

Is it correct that the fact she is unemployed a game over scenario from an income requirement? In other words, it doesn't matter that I very easily exceed the requirement? Even if we switched roles and I watched the kids, she would not be able to make the 18,600k is why I am asking.

I also have a small business that has exceeded both the income threshold for years. Would the business need to be my wife's? Could I add her as a partner and put her to work/pay her well or does it just have to be her business?

Thank you.

Hi,

Excuse my loose terminology. I have stopped focusing on any life in the UK and have focused on life here over the past few years so I am not completely up to speed on proper terminology but today we have been thinking of leaving.

My wife is a UK Citizen living with me here in the USA. Both of our kids have UK/USA passports. We have been married for almost 20 years at this point.

As I keep vacillating a move that seems to be made of relative unobtainium over the years, I wanted to be clear on something.

Sure I know about the pie in the sky ~62,500k pounds in a savings account that is untouched for 6 months. Sure I could do that but don't like the money being held up for 6 months for a variety of reasons beyond the scope of this post.

I then thought of income requirements of 18,600 pounds per annum. I just wanted to be sure that I have this correct because it certainly wasn't like this when I last held a spousal visa and lived in the UK with my wife back in 04-05. I know the rules have changed but didn't want to assume anything.

My wife does not work and I make great money...far beyond the annualized 18,600 requirement.

Is it correct that the fact she is unemployed a game over scenario from an income requirement? In other words, it doesn't matter that I very easily exceed the requirement? Even if we switched roles and I watched the kids, she would not be able to make the 18,600k is why I am asking.

I also have a small business that has exceeded both the income threshold for years. Would the business need to be my wife's? Could I add her as a partner and put her to work/pay her well or does it just have to be her business?

Thank you.

Employment income would have to come from the UK sponsor and there also has to be a job offer in the UK of over the required amount starting within 3 months.
Do you have any non employment income such as property rental income or investment income above 18.6kgbp?
If not, then realistically you are looking at savings.

You can use a pension savings account if the savings can be immediately withdrawn.

It's all here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996814/appendix-fm-1-7-financial-requirement-v7.0-ext.pdf
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence

In a black and white way, yes you are correct.  If the UK citizen is not employed and you do not have (or want to use) cash savings, she cannot sponsor you. 

Are you in a specialised field and able to qualify for a Skilled Worker visa?

Hi,

Thanks for the input. Now what if I hire my wife? I guess the same still applies in that she needs a job offer over there too? I just wanted to rule that out.

I am in a specialized field that would qualify for a Skilled Worker Visa. I am never treated right when I email or call there unfortunately. I am a Senior Systems Information Technology Engineer and an Information Technology Security Engineer. I also work roles that probably do not qualify.

Even if I have these skillsets, I still have to have someone make me an offer to be considered right? If so, that is next to impossible. I can't even begin to explain how badly I am treated via email and phone call when responding to an alleged job offer. Every once in a while, someone will email me at 5pm BST as if it were the last thing they did before they left for the day and never respond on the next business day even if professionally reminded via email or called. Terrible yet consistent experiences. No one is interested in my skillset there apparently. No technique (and I have tried them all believe me) works....I have been at this for over 16 years! However, when I was there, work was a dime a dozen. My phone would not stop ringing and I was far less experienced than I am today.

Thanks.

Thanks for the input. Now what if I hire my wife? I guess the same still applies in that she needs a job offer over there too? I just wanted to rule that out.

In order for your wife to be able to sponsor you using employment income, she must meet 2 requirements:

1) she has earned at least £18,600 before tax in the US in the last 12 months before applying
AND
2) she has a job offer from a UK-based company starting within 3 months and paying at least £18,600 per year

Only income she has earned in the US can count towards the first requirement.

Honestly, if you have at least £62,500 in savings, that’s by far the easiest and simplest way to qualify for the visa.

All you need to provide is 6 full months of bank statements and a declaration of the source of the savings. No need for your wife to get a job or for you to qualify for a skilled worker visa.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi,

Thanks for the input. Now what if I hire my wife? I guess the same still applies in that she needs a job offer over there too? I just wanted to rule that out.

I am in a specialized field that would qualify for a Skilled Worker Visa. I am never treated right when I email or call there unfortunately. I am a Senior Systems Information Technology Engineer and an Information Technology Security Engineer. I also work roles that probably do not qualify.

Even if I have these skillsets, I still have to have someone make me an offer to be considered right? If so, that is next to impossible. I can't even begin to explain how badly I am treated via email and phone call when responding to an alleged job offer. Every once in a while, someone will email me at 5pm BST as if it were the last thing they did before they left for the day and never respond on the next business day even if professionally reminded via email or called. Terrible yet consistent experiences. No one is interested in my skillset there apparently. No technique (and I have tried them all believe me) works....I have been at this for over 16 years! However, when I was there, work was a dime a dozen. My phone would not stop ringing and I was far less experienced than I am today.

Thanks.

Sorry you've been dealing with these sorts of reaction. Perhaps not the sort of folk you want to be working for anyway...

I know you said you don't want to use savings for a number of reasons. Do you feel able to share any of those with us? Maybe we could help you see a way around your reservations?

Sorry you've been dealing with these sorts of reaction. Perhaps not the sort of folk you want to be working for anyway...

I know you said you don't want to use savings for a number of reasons. Do you feel able to share any of those with us? Maybe we could help you see a way around your reservations?

Well thank you. It's hard to refuse such a pragmatic offer.

First of all, it is EVERY recruiter that I come across that treats me like this. I get about 40 emails per day for work offers on average in the USA given my background even though I never apply to anything. If I responded to all of them, I would say that about 35 would be responsive.

I personally think that my name has been passed around the UK recruiter community as someone to mess with and there are less companies there due to size amplifying the situation. I don't tolerate disrespect very well or poor communications and that seems to pose a problem. I have never been particularly rude unless I have been backed up against the wall.

Secondly, and apologies for going out of scope, but you did ask me what my hang up is. It is both sociological and psychological I guess.

Again, I don't like my money tied up for that long. While I am doing well here, that is an awful lot of money for an average person. We are always in two minds about where is better really.

Most people like freedom of movement and every "human farm" has made it harder and harder to achieve that goal. A few bad days here and we'd just like to say that we hate it here and just get out. Sorry, I just like fluidity.

I also don't keep all of my money in various account types. I like to keep most of the money in the business when possible. It's effectively "our" money...well it's my business which poses a problem I guess. The business has likely had more than 62500 GBP in it for more than 6 months.

Then there is the running to the bank and having the statements stamped like we did only to change our mind. Then comes corporate taxes.....right down below that 62500 again (possibly). Time to start over.

It's hard to live mentally in both places. We can live like relative royalty here only to think about having to live like paupers again.

We have no family close here and we have no family that we talk to there. It's almost like if we don't have good external families might as well live the most material lives we can.

It's just something we don't like about living in the DC area though....but if we decide to leave here for another part of the USA then we can find that we hate it too and can make a 3rd of the money. Same with the UK...find that we dislike it and make 1/5th the money.

You did ask, lol. Sorry to go off track.

Thank you.

Well thank you. It's hard to refuse such a pragmatic offer.

First of all, it is EVERY recruiter that I come across that treats me like this. I get about 40 emails per day for work offers on average in the USA given my background even though I never apply to anything. If I responded to all of them, I would say that about 35 would be responsive.

I personally think that my name has been passed around the UK recruiter community as someone to mess with and there are less companies there due to size amplifying the situation. I don't tolerate disrespect very well or poor communications and that seems to pose a problem. I have never been particularly rude unless I have been backed up against the wall.

Secondly, and apologies for going out of scope, but you did ask me what my hang up is. It is both sociological and psychological I guess.

Again, I don't like my money tied up for that long. While I am doing well here, that is an awful lot of money for an average person. We are always in two minds about where is better really.

Most people like freedom of movement and every "human farm" has made it harder and harder to achieve that goal. A few bad days here and we'd just like to say that we hate it here and just get out. Sorry, I just like fluidity.

I also don't keep all of my money in various account types. I like to keep most of the money in the business when possible. It's effectively "our" money...well it's my business which poses a problem I guess. The business has likely had more than 62500 GBP in it for more than 6 months.

Then there is the running to the bank and having the statements stamped like we did only to change our mind. Then comes corporate taxes.....right down below that 62500 again (possibly). Time to start over.

It's hard to live mentally in both places. We can live like relative royalty here only to think about having to live like paupers again.

We have no family close here and we have no family that we talk to there. It's almost like if we don't have good external families might as well live the most material lives we can.

It's just something we don't like about living in the DC area though....but if we decide to leave here for another part of the USA then we can find that we hate it too and can make a 3rd of the money. Same with the UK...find that we dislike it and make 1/5th the money.

You did ask, lol. Sorry to go off track.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing. I think I get the gist of it.

Unfortunately, until you are both dual citizens, you won't be able to have that freedom of movement that you would like. If you were to commit to the UK and stick it out for 5 years and a bit, then you would have just that. It's there if you want it but you would have to go the savings route I think, at least initially.

Even if you were to go savings all the way, (as many people prefer to do for security) you would only need the £62.5k for the first 2.5 years because for the final visa, the requirement is reduced to £34,600. But from what you've said, that won't suit you so the minimum length of time you would need to tie the money up for would be:- the 6 month waiting period + however long processing takes (could be couple of weeks to several months depending on a number of factors) + the length of time it takes you to get to the UK.

Once in the country, you'd have a better chance of getting employment, as you would have the right to work and could use employment income for the next visas. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be in your field.

I think you just have to decide whether you want it enough. From what I can see, the ball's in your court!

Larabee has offered solid insight.

I’ll add to the questions. Remember you gave anonymity here which helps.

You mention that you’ve been blown off by U.K. recruiters (you won’t surprise anyone here with that comment). You mention that you have desirable skills. You mention a business in the USA.

If you moved here, what is “the dream”. Would you continue to operate your USA business from the U.K.?  I don’t know the kind of business, so assuming it’s brick and mortar and unable to “move with you”. 

If unable to move it, yeah, I get it.  It’s COMPLETELY starting over. I know I don’t want to start over (again).  So while I have my days of wanting to throw in the towel and escaping my current real life, I know that my life will be the same anywhere I live:  work hard to pay the bills and hopefully have money leftover to have some fun with.  As we had 3 HARD lockdowns we didn’t get to spend any money so….  Just working…. 

Where are “you at” in life?  Approaching retirement?  Looking to start a family?  Childfree, keeping it thst way and cruising your thirties?  Just finished university?  A lot depends on where you are!

Thank you for sharing. I think I get the gist of it.

Unfortunately, until you are both dual citizens, you won't be able to have that freedom of movement that you would like. If you were to commit to the UK and stick it out for 5 years and a bit, then you would have just that. It's there if you want it but you would have to go the savings route I think, at least initially.

Even if you were to go savings all the way, (as many people prefer to do for security) you would only need the £62.5k for the first 2.5 years because for the final visa, the requirement is reduced to £34,600. But from what you've said, that won't suit you so the minimum length of time you would need to tie the money up for would be:- the 6 month waiting period + however long processing takes (could be couple of weeks to several months depending on a number of factors) + the length of time it takes you to get to the UK.

Once in the country, you'd have a better chance of getting employment, as you would have the right to work and could use employment income for the next visas. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be in your field.

I think you just have to decide whether you want it enough. From what I can see, the ball's in your court!

Thanks for all of this. This really helped me better think out the "stretch of time" that I would need to hold on to that money although I didn't anticipate the reduction after time that you mentioned which is truly beneficial.

You are right about getting a job while in the UK. My wife argues with me about this all the time. I guess that I suffer from delusions of grandeur at times. I think that there would be some excitement from these recruiters when they saw where I have worked....e.g. infamous places that the whole world knows about. Yes, "that" place and "that" place but not a hint of enthusiasm. I guess the regional thinking process is different. Jobs were almost like water for me there as I mentioned and that was when I had 15 years less experience.

It is in our court, yes. I just have to decide whether or not we want it or not. Even with 2.5 jobs I can still be a lazy bastard in my free time and want the easy route until I don't, lol.

Thank you.

Larabee has offered solid insight.

I’ll add to the questions. Remember you gave anonymity here which helps.

You mention that you’ve been blown off by U.K. recruiters (you won’t surprise anyone here with that comment). You mention that you have desirable skills. You mention a business in the USA.

If you moved here, what is “the dream”. Would you continue to operate your USA business from the U.K.?  I don’t know the kind of business, so assuming it’s brick and mortar and unable to “move with you”. 

If unable to move it, yeah, I get it.  It’s COMPLETELY starting over. I know I don’t want to start over (again).  So while I have my days of wanting to throw in the towel and escaping my current real life, I know that my life will be the same anywhere I live:  work hard to pay the bills and hopefully have money leftover to have some fun with.  As we had 3 HARD lockdowns we didn’t get to spend any money so….  Just working…. 

Where are “you at” in life?  Approaching retirement?  Looking to start a family?  Childfree, keeping it thst way and cruising your thirties?  Just finished university?  A lot depends on where you are!

Thank you for this. I guess I can check the employment forum again to see if anyone has had any luck with not getting blown off. I really have tried every approach from nice to firm to begging to sob stories to name/email address changes and nothing works. Glad it isn't just me as misery loves company...but not in this case really, lol.

The dream for me is to live in Glasgow again agnostic to surroundings or neighborhood. I always felt Scottish although I am anything but. My wife is the opposite. She had a rough life there and wants to live as isolated as possible in the UK or here. To me, isolation is much harder to obtain there than it is to get here. I am fine either way really.

Complete opposites, but you know what they say about that. To me, the objective of obtaining isolation is an extremely difficult thing to accomplish there logistically. I know that I am speaking metaphorically perhaps but I think it will be 5 times as hard, 5 times as costly, and 5 times as difficult as here.

I am in my mid/late forties and my wife is just about to start pushing 40. We have teenagers. One is early teens and one is late teens. Late teens one loves it here. Early teens one wants to move to England...interesting.

Where we are: Living great for TODAY.

Don't get me wrong. I won't be able to retire, possibly ever. The reason we left the USA for the UK in the early 2000's was because where we lived in the USA at the time. it was impossible to find work. I had a young one from a previous marriage and we had it really tough on both ends. I also had an ex-wife who could out-afford me in her litigation to stop me from seeing my child. At the other end, I could not afford to pay her child support and live along with all of the consequences that came with it.

After being effectively stopped from seeing my child, along with a downward spiraling financial situation we decided that it was time to move to the UK so that I could find work...and so I did. Life got better, and I was able to make international payments, but I really was stopped by her unwillingness to see my child. She refused international visitation on any terms and she held all of the cards. I started to feel bad, so we returned to the USA thinking that things would get better. They did, but just for a short time. Ultimately, the ex was able to out litigate me again and I lost all contact with my child who is now well into adulthood. While all of this was happening, her father in Scotland passed away just 2 years after losing her mother.

The child support paid out and student loans (Just an A.S. degree which is completely ignored in the UK but was incredibly expensive for me to pay off after 20 years of compound interest having been deferred to pay child support) thereafter have it so that we cannot live a good life now and in the future. I guess that I am fortunate in a way as most people would not have been able to survive this. Just trying to live well today while it's possible. I feel like we deserve it. I will probably work remotely into retirement. Thanks for that Covid.

My "business" is just a one person federal contractor setup. It's just how I choose to do business as opposed to being a salaried person.

The odds of being to articulate such a move and keep such a job are quite slim even though it is 100% remote largely due to the nature of the beast....although the  US has an international presence out there with a relevant nexus I wouldn't bank on the ability to make a move through such channels. Now my boss has a pretty liberal interpretation about these things and if there is anyone that would say yes based upon reason she would be the one. Still, that would probably create immigration hang-ups even if authority is received that I can't even imagine.

I failed to think of the impact of the lockdowns on folks living there as well. Thanks for the lowdown.

Typing this out really helps me think.

Appreciated.

It's a huge decision and you seem to be a person that understands all avenues and appreciates realism. Some solid advice here from the 'you can never thank enough' members of the forum.

The UK is a different place than it was 15-20 years ago but 5 years is also a large proportion of your life (of anyone's life for that matter) but you'll be able to claim citizenship at the end of it and have complete liquid freedom. This is with my presumption that your wife also holds US citizenship.

Tough having children that want to live either side of the pond. They're at crucial educational ages where a decision needs making now. Late teens getting ready for university/college. Early teen about to start the UK equivalent of high school. Without knowing the specifics I'd imagine the less impact would happen with a move soon. You obviously know more and I'm sure you've given that side of the situation plenty of thought.

I have a bit of knowledge with my first job out of university being for one of the major US Government Defence contractors.  Unfortunately, I think you are correct, that the US government isn't going to be keen on you being physically present in the UK while working (even indirectly) for the USA.  I think back to the polygraphs I had while working there, and there was a LOT of focus around foreign relations.  I know I could never return to that role now.

The kids definitely add a layer of complexity.  Not even just a layer, more likely the biggest obstacle if I'm honest.  The secondary education systems between to the US and UK is VASTLY different.  And you are right, the UK LOVES to think their education system is far superior to the US one.  I can assure you that after working here for as long as I have... a UK education is not better.  Neither is a US education better.  Though I would argue that a US education is a bit more well rounded and not too specific too young. 

Recruiters.... well, a large percentage of them are bottom feeders.  There are some AMAZING ones out there, but sadly they are out numbered by sheer quantity of people trying to get a commission without knowing what they are recruiting for.  I have one guy, bless, who keeps sending me job adverts for non-qualified admin roles paying less than 10% of my salary.  He has no clue. 

Here's the thing with the UK in general.  They LOVE their own qualifications.  They don't "know" foreign qualifications.  And they are looking for the EASY candidate.  The one who is right there waiting in the wings.  Not someone who has to figure out a visa and international move with a partner and kids (let's call a spade a spade).  With covid, SO many people are jobless, that there are LITERALLY going to be 100 "can do the job well enough" people waiting in the wings.  Now that furlough is coming to an end, I think we will see the unemployment figures skyrocket (that's the end of September unless it's extended for the millionth time).

I'm in a similar stage of life myself, with some differences.  My kids are younger (7 and 4).  I have started subtracting years since covid started so according to MY math, I'm still in my 30's.      I am very much starting to look ahead at retirement planning now that I've paid my last nursery bill!!!!!!!  That's a huge amount of money each month that can be lifted and shifted to saving.  We are getting ready to undergo a major extension on our home, trying to squeeze every inch out of the plot we are on.  I've been in the UK since 2010.  I don't recognise the US, let alone think I can slot back into life there.

Which brings me on to Ben's point.  Everything here will have moved forward in the time you've been absent.  In the 10 years I've been here, I've watched Halloween go from something no one had heard of to buying trail maps of houses decorated in the area for families to walk past during their daily exercise in Lockdown 2.0.  I recently caught up with a friend/acquaintance.  Knew her (USC) for about 5 years before her husband (UKC) was offered a job in Seattle.  They moved to Seattle for 18 months (she had spent her entire adult life in the UK previously).  After 18 months HER job brought them back to the UK.  They were gone 18 months... not that long.  They had not sold their home (tried but were unsuccessful), so they moved back in and reregistered their kids at the exact same school as before they left.  She told me how hard it's been "coming back".  She says the pros and cons of each place are incomparable and yet, completely unable to be adjusted for.  And that they couldn't "slot back in" when they came back.  The kids or the adults.  Honestly, her story kind of gave me some home truths.  This whole immigration, having a global perspective kind of sucks!     You'll never quite fit in.  I know that.  I am trying to accept that.