Question for anyone

I want to swing back to a point garry was making about the CV (resume). I think in some cases, employers have this little checklist. If you, as an American, have the qualifications, but not in the same way, they sometimes don't know how to "rank" you. For instance, you might say that you "went to college for four years" and although impressive in the US, it's almost a sign of not having done well here. You see, "college" here is almost like a votech in the US, and it's usually a two-year study. (I am simplifying to make a point; I know you didn't mention college/university being a part of your resume.)

The terminology is different. Focus on why you're not even getting the interviews. Have a good look at the resume and cover letter. Check out this URL:
Why are CVs Rejected?

Also, even though you are doing yourself a good service by getting your name out anywhere by listing with as many agencies as you can, I confess my own experience as someone in the postion to hire people to work for us...if an agency phones, I say "thank you, but we're not hiring" and leave it at that; if an individual phones, I will listen and commiserate, say that we're not hiring now, but the person's name gets put in my head and if he/she impressed me I will spread the word, maybe even put them directly in touch with someone who is looking. The direct approach will get you further in the door, IMHO.

About CV's..if you are signing up with agencies - don't worry about CV format...most of the agencies I have dealt with will put your CV in their format...omitting your address etc.

I have been going through some CV's in the past few days to hire someone to replace me.  I can say less is more. One guy has a 5 page CV and I only skimmed it...too many words...too much content.  I have actually requested an interview with him, but to be honest I have not read his entire CV.

This won't apply to you - but be careful what you write on your CV when you get "creative" with what you actually did at a job.  One of the women that I am interviewing tomorrow wrote about one job, and about what she did, etc.  When I read who the employer was, and when she was there.....She was the person hired to REPLACE ME at that job!!!  I know for a fact that what she wrote on the CV is not exactly the truth about that job.  I am still interested in her for an interview but I am a bit wary.

I have had good and bad experiences with agencies here...same as in the States...and I have been told before interviews to "tone it down" a bit.  Too much enthusiasm here will not impress.  Of course I am in the finance/accounting sector.

Good Luck!

Wow, thanks everyone for all of the replies, advice and kind words, both here and in PM.  You'll never know how much it means to me.  I really appreciate all the responses, sincerely.  I have dumbed down my CV but perhaps I just have not been thorough enough.

quote author=lolabola link=topic=8904.msg85128#msg85128 date=1101138658]
 And employers shouldn't really have an idea of your religion unless you have it on your CV or wear religious symbols everywhere. quote]

Here in NI, an employer can tell what religion you are just by your address and surname as another poster pointed out.  Being a non religious person, I never in a million years ever thought about this aspect prior to moving here.  I guess I was naive.  You fill out a monitoring form denoting your religious affiliation.  In theory it is not supposed to determine your ability for the job and is to be kept confidential.  Call me cynical, but I do not believe that for one minute.  

Do any of you think that doing a mass mailing to companies that I would like to work for would have any benefit? In other words, a cold call so to speak.  I have tweaked my CV to tailor to different sorts of companies.  i.e., beverage categories, food categories, office supply categories.  As a buyer, I have bought items from such a wide variety.  So in other words lots of knowledge of lots of different items.  Do I show how broad based I am or do I narrow it down to a specific category?  Or better yet just tailor it to the position for which I am applying.  I am sorry I am typing out loud here.  My husband is in construction management and has never had to look for a job.  It has always been by word of mouth.  So, bless him but he really can't offer me any assistance although he does try.  

It was the same way in the states for me as far as I never had to look for a job, I always heard by word of mouth from one of my vendors about a job opening.  I will work at my Cv again.  I think I am up to 15 different formats at this point.

Thanks again for all of the advice and words of encouragement.  At this point, I need all of the help I can get.  

Here in NI, an employer can tell what religion you are just by your address and surname as another poster pointed out.  Being a non religious person, I never in a million years ever thought about this aspect prior to moving here.  I guess I was naive.  You fill out a monitoring form denoting your religious affiliation.  In theory it is not supposed to determine your ability for the job and is to be kept confidential.  Call me cynical, but I do not believe that for one minute.  

Yes, I think we would all be wise to accept that things in NI are are tad bit different than other places when it comes to religion, etc! It may be 'peace' there now, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

Rosie, I'm not sure this is a battle you can fight - if indeed this is what is affecting your ability to get a job so I would focus on other aspects of the job hunt.

You mentioned a series of letters or cold calls. I, too, am in the process of doing that. I'm a graphic designer so I am actually putting together a promotional piece for myself rather than a letter as it will stand out more but being in a creative field allows me to do that. The big question I have is, should I send these things out now... in the run up to all the holidays... or should I wait until after the New Year?

Anyway, my DH swears that letters are how he got his first job so I'm up for doing it. It's a paradigm shift for me though as I got every job I ever had in the US (bar one) via the newspaper ads. The other was a part time teaching job thru a colleague.

Now, to a point someone else brought up:

This also brings to mind another question: what is a normal commute for folks in the UK? ...

If I choose to take a job that requires say, up to an hour ride on the train, plus an additional bus ride from the train station to wherever the office is, will I be the only person at the job doing this? Will everyone else have simple twenty minute drives from house door to office door? I imagine there might be lots of commuting in the London area, but what about northern England?  I can just imagine myself rushing into work, all disheveled and out of breath because of some train delay while everyone else is sitting quietly at their desks staring at me, having arrived at work a long time ago because they had hardly any traveling to do.

I'm in the same boat. I live in an area with few jobs right now. So I'll most likely need to commute. You will find folks commuting well up to 45 minutes even if they don't live that many miles away... like anywhere it's just a reflection of the traffic volume but it's also the much slower country roads here! I interviewed for a county council job where I would have commuted up to 1:15 and they did not seem surprised but that's just one job.

If I choose to take a job that requires say, up to an hour ride on the train, plus an additional bus ride from the train station to wherever the office is, will I be the only person at the job doing this? Will everyone else have simple twenty minute drives from house door to office door? I imagine there might be lots of commuting in the London area, but what about northern England?  I can just imagine myself rushing into work, all disheveled and out of breath because of some train delay while everyone else is sitting quietly at their desks staring at me, having arrived at work a long time ago because they had hardly any traveling to do.

Long commutes in London are the norm, but I don't think it's so unusual now in northern England. I work in Leeds, and have colleagues who commute from Harrogate and York. I imagine in York there may be people driving quite a long way in from small rural villages.

Thanks again for all of the advice and words of encouragement.  At this point, I need all of the help I can get. 

Please keep us updated on what's going on. I totally sympathise with you. Looking for work can be very stressful and demotivating. My advice is to saturise the industry with your CV. Go to the agencies (even the bad ones) and bug them on a weekly basis for work. Every job I've had was through an agency. I've had some bad ones and I've had some good ones. The one I've got now is great. You've got the skills, it's only a matter of time before you get the job. Don't get discouraged.


As far as commuting goes, I live 20 minutes away from Leeds city centre (which is where I work) so it takes me 10 minutes max by bus to get here. Although, back home I had a 45 minute commute. Most of the people I work with live in Leeds or the surrounding areas. I don't think anyone lives more than 45 minutes away.

Please keep us updated on what's going on. I totally sympathise with you. Looking for work can be very stressful and demotivating. My advice is to saturise the industry with your CV. Go to the agencies (even the bad ones) and bug them on a weekly basis for work. Every job I've had was through an agency. I've had some bad ones and I've had some good ones. The one I've got now is great. You've got the skills, it's only a matter of time before you get the job. Don't get discouraged.

Ditto.
It's all one big adventure!

And I commute about 30-45 min each way on the fabulous London Underground.
I love it.

Do any of you think that doing a mass mailing to companies that I would like to work for would have any benefit? In other words, a cold call so to speak.  I have tweaked my CV to tailor to different sorts of companies.

I happen to get job applications in from time to time.   Just wanted to add a comment  here.   There's no harm in writing to a lot ("mass") of organisations, but it's worthwhile tailoring each individually - find out the name of the person you're writing to and put his / her name in the covering letter.  Find out what services the company offers.  Say "I would like to work in Lisburn because ...." if they're in Lisburn and "I would llike to work in Derry because ..." if they're there, making sure to write Londonderry instead if they're in a Unionist area.

10 well researched / tailored applications will do you a lot more good than 100 "cookie cutter" ones.   But if you have time to do 100 well researched, so much the better,

Here in NI, an employer can tell what religion you are just by your address and surname as another poster pointed out.  Being a non religious person, I never in a million years ever thought about this aspect prior to moving here.  I guess I was naive.  You fill out a monitoring form denoting your religious affiliation.  In theory it is not supposed to determine your ability for the job and is to be kept confidential.  Call me cynical, but I do not believe that for one minute.  

Not just NI.

There was a study done recently in the US, in which pairs of resumes were sent out to prospective employers, both identical in all respects except that in one, the prospective employee had an ethnic-sounding name. The resumes with the ethnic- sounding names were much more likely to be rejected.

In addition, having a friend who used to work for an employment agency in the US, I am aware that US employers sometimes request agencies to weed out candidates who belong to "undesirable minorities."

Rose I pm'ed you about this.

Presumably most employers wouldn't list their vacancy with an agency if they weren't prepared to pay the fee.

I'm not sure that most employers do.
In the case I cited, the agency approached me with the CV on spec. We have never listed a vacancy with an employment agency, yet I have received hundreds of unsolicited CV's from them. Most are totally irrelevant to our business.
I know from business contacts that our situation is far from unique.

I'm not sure that most employers do.
In the case I cited, the agency approached me with the CV on spec. We have never listed a vacancy with an employment agency, yet I have received hundreds of unsolicited CV's from them. Most are totally irrelevant to our business.
I know from business contacts that our situation is far from unique.

OK. That explains it

I'm not sure that most employers do.
In the case I cited, the agency approached me with the CV on spec. We have never listed a vacancy with an employment agency, yet I have received hundreds of unsolicited CV's from them. Most are totally irrelevant to our business.
I know from business contacts that our situation is far from unique.

Very cheeky! I would definitely not pay their commission if you hire their person - they haven't provided you with a service at all.

Very cheeky! I would definitely not pay their commission if you hire their person - they haven't provided you with a service at all.

Certainly not at the level they post in their standard terms. £10k-£12k for swamping the market on the off chance of a possible taker and then leaving it to the employer and prospective candidate to arrange intervies seems to me to be totally unrealistic.

But I do have a serious point for anyone seeking employment.
Just think about how employment agencies work. Mostly, in my experience, they are doing just what an individual COULD do. They approach potential employers who they THINK might require a candidate with specific skills.

Now couldn't someone looking for employment do this themselves, expecially with the access to information we now have, of and wouldn't they have a better understanding of the employer's business and requirements than a member of an agency staff who is a layman in the particular field ?

In short, what can the agency do that the individual couldn't, and with much better focus ?

Certainly not at the level they post in their standard terms. £10k-£12k for swamping the market on the off chance of a possible taker and then leaving it to the employer and prospective candidate to arrange intervies seems to me to be totally unrealistic.

But I do have a serious point for anyone seeking employment.
Just think about how employment agencies work. Mostly, in my experience, they are doing just what an individual COULD do. They approach potential employers who they THINK might require a candidate with specific skills.

Now couldn't someone looking for employment do this themselves, expecially with the access to information we now have, of and wouldn't they have a better understanding of the employer's business and requirements than a member of an agency staff who is a layman in the particular field ?

In short, what can the agency do that the individual couldn't, and with much better focus ?

Cascode, I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head here.  What irritates me to no end is that I went to a national recruiting agency with offices in England and here in NI.  While, the girl that interviewed me (I use that term very loosely) was very nice and perky.  I did find her lacking in any sense of professionalism and lets just say polish.  She seemed more like a secretary than a recruiter to me. Mind you, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a secretary, that is where I started me career.  She knew nothing about my industry or my particular career.  But, I want someone with a little finesse searching for a job for me.  She has also had the audacity to ask me what companies I wanted to work for as it was "her job" to call 15 companies on my behalf.  I looked at her and asked her in my most sarcastic voice "is there any other part of your job you would like me to do as well".  It is no wonder that recruiter has never called me.  I was very honest with this girl during the interview process and told her of all the other recruiters in Belfast I had been to and of my experience to date.  She assured me that they were different.  Yeah, right, sure, tell me another story.

I was speaking with my husband over dinner tonight and I think I have come to the conclusion that I am driving myself nuts looking for a job every waking moment of each day to no avail.  He agreed with me that I should set up certain days of the week and focus on nothing else those days and the other remaining days, keep my mind away from the job hunt.  I think that is the idea!