UKM Application

More good info in the above post - thanks Garry.

Got a response from the nationality e-mail on the IND site I believe. I was originally asking them what docs to send. They are as a result asking me for more information and dates.  Am going to send them as much as I have and compose a note to them tomorrow. When I had orginally started this process, I had thought I had finally found a way to become a UK citizen not realizing that my mother's citizenship however she got it was even an issue....in terms of my getting it.

I had never heard of the UKM application until recently. Right of Abode was out of the question. I had known that.

Will keep everyone posted. Still waiting to hear from JCWI. Not sure how long that will take.

E

Can someone tell me if I am on the right track w/this...not sure if the year this was written, the info would help but it's worth a try...

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/laws___policy/policy_instructions/nis/chapter_20/british_citizenship.html

20.2.5 Under s.14(2), a British citizen born outside the United Kingdom before 1 January 1983 is not a British citizen by descent under s.14(1) for any of the reasons in 20.2.4.a, b, c, d or g above if, at the time of the birth, his or her father:

·   was serving outside the United Kingdom; and

·   was in Crown service under the government of the United Kingdom; or

·   was in service of any description at any time designated under s.2(3); or

·   was in service under a Community institution; and

·   was recruited for the service in question:

This is the reply I received today from the Embassy in DC. I have removed their names.

EG
____________
 
Had another look at this case and from the information which is provided, i still do not see a case for Registration under Section 4C of the British Nationality Act 1981.
 
1. Paternal Grandfather born in the United Kingdom is a British Subject by birth under the Section 1(1)(a) BNSAA 1914
 
2. Daughter born in 1934 outside the UK and Colonies would have been a British Subject by decent under Section 1(1)(b)(iv) BNSAA 1922, as read with BNSAA 1914 (father in diplomatic service). On the introduction of the British Nationality Act 1948, his daughter would then have had a status of British Subject, Citizen of the UK & Colonies Section 12(2) BNA 1948. This is nationality gained by descent.
 
3. Under the BNA 1948, females could not pass on nationality. However, if they had been able to, her daughter would then be the second generation born outside the UK and have no automatic claim to British Nationality (unless registered at a Embassy within one year of birth under Section 5(1)(b) BNA 1948).
 
I may have missed something here, so therefore i would advise applicant to go directly to the Home Office with her enquiry as they are the ones who make the final decision. Best sight is
 
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/content/ind/en/home.html
 
Hope this helps

So what's a next step taking into consideration the most recent post above?

It looks like your problem is that you were born before they changed the law so that nationality could pass through the mother.   Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do in that case except ask them to make an exception in your case - but you would need compelling reasons why they should.  Maybe someone else will have more ideas.

cie, what year were you born?  I know when they changed the law a couple of years ago, it only applied to people born after 1961.  There was another "Gray area" between 1942(?) and 1961.  One of the Lords tried to get it added in but they shot him down.

Frankly, I don't get the answer.  Yes, under the 1948 law she couldn't pass it on.  But there is a new law now.  Since your Grandfather was in Crown Service and your mother was granted the ability to pass on citizenship in 1948...

Again, did you spend a lot of time in the UK growing up?  Is your Mum there now?

I think the issue is that they are considering cie's mother a citizen 'by descent'.  The changes in citizenship law apply to mothers who are citizens 'other than by descent'.  (Section 2 of the email from the British Consulate refers to 'nationality gained by descent.)  They did advise to go to the home office for information.  That would be my next step....

I am going to wait another day or two as I have yet to hear back from JCWI. I faxed them again for a response  per a helpful nudge from an informed poster.

The Embassy may also get back to me w/more information...as I had yet more questions to pose. I am also asking a lawyer friend to post my circumstances on a legal message board..the only problem is that she is here in the US..but perhaps, I'll get another lead.

Also, am going to get one more quote from a UK solicitor...who is in the UK and who works w/a friend of of mine here. Perhaps, this is for naught but the door is still open, even if only a very little.

2. Daughter born in 1934 outside the UK and Colonies would have been a British Subject by decent under Section 1(1)(b)(iv) BNSAA 1922, as read with BNSAA 1914 (father in diplomatic service). On the introduction of the British Nationality Act 1948, his daughter would then have had a status of British Subject, Citizen of the UK & Colonies Section 12(2) BNA 1948. This is nationality gained by descent.
 

huh?       Mystified as to what they are citing from.   Can you get the name of their reference?  The commencement of BNA 1948 cannot have reduced the nationality of a citizen by otherwise than descent???  Also try and get the edition of what they are citing from.  Or alternatively, send me their email/fax in a pm.    I really don't see why BNSAA 1922 needs to be read with BNSAA 1914 to determine if she was a Subject by descent   

Ok, you guys have got to let me know how this goes....I'm so intrigued by it all!!!

Ok, you guys have got to let me know how this goes....I'm so intrigued by it all!!!

Me too. 

Just to add in front of when cie3 finds out whatever reference the Embassy is using, when it comes to a question about nationality, I use this one as my primary:  http://www.oup.co.uk/isbn/0-19-926459-7

And this one as my secondary:  http://www.icar.org.uk/res/drp/drps/drp076.html

Now I know that the next edition of the Phelan/Gillespie isn't out until next June, and and JCWI new edition isn't out until next month, ok, so they are somewhat out of date in a few months time.  Phelan/Gillespie is the one provided to Consular Missions... 

That's why I'm bewildered about what they are using to cite from.  It's impossible to disagree with them until they say what their authorities are...

 
Of course, I'll advise once I hear...but they have not come back to me. You all have been so encouraging and helpful. I am anxious to hear from them as you might imagine. I wonder if they are going to contact the help desk in London directly.

I am going to try and reach JCWI by phone first thing tomorrow. My first contact to them was sent via e-mail last thursday. I refaxed them either this past Monday or Tuesday.

Perhaps, I'll get something from them before tomorrow.

E

This is the latest note that I received from the Embassy...it does not really help. I am going to be trying the JCWI again next week. I missed their phone hours for today. Then I will next fax the Home Office.

---
As far as we are aware, the position that your grandfather held, has no impact on your claim for citizenship. As requested, please go directly to the Home Office in England, if you are not content with our outcome as they are the people that make the laws and ultimately will be able to check fully into it. We are unable to help you in any further in this matter.

As far as we are aware, the position that your grandfather held, has no impact on your claim for citizenship. As requested, please go directly to the Home Office in England, if you are not content with our outcome as they are the people that make the laws and ultimately will be able to check fully into it. We are unable to help you in any further in this matter.

The grammar and punctuation here is *appallingly* poor.  Did this come from a Vice Consul?

no lowly staff member is my impression. I am going to continue w/my research before faxing the IND for their opinion. Will do that in another week or two....