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Topic: Anyone up for a quick survey?  (Read 2479 times)

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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2013, 11:23:26 AM »
Ok done!


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 12:42:55 PM »
Did it!  :) Also, another one here who would have used contractions for some of those.
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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2013, 01:20:29 PM »
Thanks, everyone!  The response has been great.  There are reasons why I didn't use contractions, and why the responses are phrased as they are.  I will explain all when the survey closes, which will probably be on Saturday.  So keep 'em coming!
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2013, 03:15:23 PM »
Done :)
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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2013, 05:51:36 PM »
Done  :D


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Re: Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2013, 11:16:32 PM »
Done! It's made me wonder why sometimes I use one construction over the other... generally just a different 'feel' I guess?

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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 02:01:43 AM »
Did it!  :) Also, another one here who would have used contractions for some of those.
Me too!


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 06:39:53 AM »
Done......another contraction user here which made neither option really feel right.


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2013, 02:46:44 PM »
Thanks again to everyone who took the survey.  The response was great, exceeding my targets.  Also thanks a lot for the feedback.  Everyone who pointed out that they would use contractions, that was actually sort of what I was getting at.

The survey was about the use of the present perfect (I have read that book) and the past simple (I read that book).  In standard British English, the present perfect is used for actions that are completed but not fixed in time (so, "I have read that book" is different from "I read that book in 2011") and actions or states that began in the past but are ongoing at the point of speaking (often expressed with for or since, as in "I have lived in England for five years/since 2008").  The second usage often contains adverbs of frequency (ever, never, yet, always).

Based on this, every scenario in the survey requires the use of the present perfect. 

It is a pervasive belief in British ELT (English Language Teaching) that the present perfect is less commonly used in American English, and I have actually had teachers tell me that it's not used in AmEng at all.  I've always argued this point because clearly (I thought) it's false.  But people are so adamant that I began to wonder whether my memories had been influenced by years of living in the UK and teaching from British grammar books and textbooks.  Hence the survey.  I suppose I should also mention that I'm writing a paper on teaching the present perfect, lest you think I'm just a random nut job ;).     

My theory is that the present perfect is used in the US in just the same way and just as commonly (or at least almost as commonly) as in the UK, and that much of the ambiguity surrounding it comes from the fact that in spoken language the auxiliary (have/has) is nearly always contracted.  This contraction creates a phonetic "weak form," meaning a sound that is almost swallowed by the speaker.  In the sentence "I've read that book" the "I've" is often pronounced /əv/ and the /v/  can even sound like a faint /f/.  The upside of all this is that contracted auxiliaries in the present perfect are so poorly enunciated that they may be omitted altogether.  This is definitely true for learners of English, but I think also of native speakers.  It's the same phenomenon that produces "should of" and "could of"  instead of "should've" and "could've".  The pronunciation is identical: /ʃʊdəv/ and /kʊdəv/.  People write what they hear.  I wanted this survey to mark explicitly the difference between the two forms, and that is why I didn't use contractions. 

At the moment I'm working on analysing the survey data and on writing my paper, so it may be a while before I have a full analysis, but initially it looks like my theory was mostly correct.  There is no significant difference between the British and American speakers who responded to the survey.  Obviously this is not comprehensive or scientifically rigourous, but I believe that at least it calls into question the BritELT assertions.  So, hurrah for internet-based pseudoscience! 

If anyone is still conscious and interested after that wall of text, I can make the survey results available online once I'm done with them.  Let me know if there's interest :)
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2013, 03:22:40 PM »
I'm an ELT editor/writer, and have focused a lot on the differences between AmEng and BriEng. I'm very interested in your research!

In my experience, AmEng and BriEng use the present perfect equally to refer to time in the past that's connected to the present. (I've had 2 cups of coffee today.).

The difference with present perfect is about what is considered to be connected to the present and what is not.

For example, I've (just) gone to the store. = BriEng --> (the past 'just' is still connected to the present because it's very close in time). But AmEng = I went to the store. (AmEng focuses on the action [of going] to be finished, so the connection to the present is finished.

AmEng doesn't usually use the present perfect with just or already because the actions are viewed as being finished.

* Another factor with contractions is the use of 'have got' vs. 'have' for possession ('have got' as opposed to the present perfect). AmEng only uses 'have got' for possession when it's contracted. (I've got two books) but never 'I have got two books'.

Anyway - I've got a lot more to say about this.  :) Looking forward to reading your research!


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Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2013, 03:34:24 PM »
Sevans, I didn't know you did ELT! 

Everything you said is in line with what I've observed, particularly the use of just and already. 

Someone on FB told me that her grammar has changed since she moved to the UK, specifically that she uses the present perfect more frequently.  Anyone else have experience of this?
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

Je t'aimais, je t'aime, et je t'aimerai.

--Francis Cabrel


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  • Joined: May 2007
Re: Anyone up for a quick survey?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2013, 03:42:03 PM »
Sevans, I didn't know you did ELT! 

Yes! Taught for years, and now edit/write for ELT publishing houses.   :)


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