Cost of living

press the "Alt" key and then press "0163" on the number pad...and you get "£".

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Thanks guys!
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Hi Lizaanne,
For what it's worth, we just sold our house here in the Midwest (three bedroom 1600 sq ft 1/2 acre)  With the proceeds, I could buy a decent 2-3 bedroom home nearby , put 20% down, and still have money left over for moving, new furniture, and a new car.  My PITI would be about $550-$600/month.
Even if we each made only$8/hr, which is what even temp work pays here, it would be easily manageable.

In her hometown in Essex, buying a 2bed flat or house would require all of our money for 10% down and closing costs. Our payments would be about 820£ + taxes and insurance.  The same work that pays $8/hr here pays 5-6£ there.   

Health insurance is the big variable.  If you have to pay for it here, it can trash your earnings fast.


Our friends here are correct in stating that location makes a huge difference though.  If I had to pay $250K to get a decent house here, it would be about even.

I have tried to tie wages to housing prices, usually your major fixed expense.  To avoid worrying about the Pound-Dollar difference, price everything with an hour's pay being the unit, i.e. "How many hours would I have to work in the UK at a job I could reasonably expect to get to buy a super widget 2000 vs hours worked in the States to buy the same thing there."  There are lots of internet sites to use to compare wages for similar jobs. Likewise for housing prices where you want to live. The exchange rate does not matter if you don't move the money.

Quality of life is a big issue, but I like to keep Maslow's hierarchy in mind.  If we can't afford food or shelter, personal fulfillment pretty much falls off the list of priorities.

We often don't like to talk about how much we earn.  That makes it difficult to know each other's reference points when speaking of finances and what is expensive or a good salary.  For example, when my sister is "broke" she can't afford to gamble much in Vegas.  When I am "broke" I have no money to go to Vegas in the first place. I wouldn't even want to waste money on a lottery ticket.

hope this helps.  good luck.

BTW - what area are you in, Paul?

I'm right on the Norfolk coast, about 20 miles northeast from Norwich (I'm on the members' map if you take a look there).

Advantages of this area compared to many other parts of England:

*  Small-town/rural feel, much less crowded, lots of open countryside
*  Lower real-estate prices (though rising rapidly, like everywhere)
*  Peaceful and quiet, more relaxed lifestyle
*  Safe -- Overall crime rate about half the national average
*  One of the lowest annual rainfall figures in the country (although it doesn't always seem like it!)

Disadvantages, depending upon your needs and wishes, of course:

*  Poor to non-existent public transport
*  Narrower range of jobs -- Farming & tourism plus the usual shops, services, etc.
*  Lower salaries (offset somewhat by lower cost of living)
*  Can seem a little windswept & bleak in winter
*  Further to drive to city stores, services, etc.


Here's the tiny dot on the map where I live -- I'm over on the right backing onto the sand dunes:

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=12155&pos=1

Wow!  That's a tiny little dot alright!  Living that rural, while I think it would be nice, would drive Simon CRAZY!  He's a city lover, and I can go either way. 

This is all really good information, and very helpful in helping me understand.  I think that with what I should be able to make, given the assumption that I will transfer with the company I'm currently with, and whatever Simon can do, we should be fine if we decide to go back to South Yorkshire.  I like the location, it's centrally located, and Sheffield has fantastic public transport (Simon does not drive). 

~Liza

Wow!  That's a tiny little dot alright!  Living that rural, while I think it would be nice, would drive Simon CRAZY!  He's a city lover, and I can go either way. 

Yep, we're off the beaten track all right.   There are actually a few more houses along one side of the (bumpy) road off to the right, and a few holiday places off to left, past the "Eccles Beach Caravan Park" you can see lower left. 

The good thing about this little burg is that it's really peaceful, safe for pets and kids to wander around, etc., and you can just roll straight onto the beach in summer.  The downside is the middle of winter when the roads are like swamps and there's a gale blowing in off the North Sea.

It's only 4-1/2 miles to town, which on these quiet lanes is about 10 minutes.  You can drive down to Tesco at night and only pass two other cars all the way.     Norwich is only 35-45 mins., although I try to avoid it whenever possible.

The downside is the middle of winter when the roads are like swamps and there's a gale blowing in off the North Sea.

And hoping that bits of the coastline (including people's homes) aren't falling off into the North Sea...  Or is that only Happisburgh, Paul?

We're also in Michigan--but in Ann Arbor, which is expensive for the midwest--and we're moving to Bath. We'll definely be paying more for a house there, but we're also prepared to buy a much smaller house. It's important for us to be right in the city, so that our two teenagers can get around and be independent.  (Do I know what I'm saying here?!) We are leaving those brutally cold Michigan winters behind. We will not need to spend weeks on end cooped up inside. So it's a fair tradeoff for us. Still, I think the house hunt will be a little depressing. No, we will not be living in one of those Grade II listed Georgians!

airmom - COMPLETE hijack here, but I used to live in Ann Arbor - it is where I met my husband - and miss it so much! My favorite US city that I've lived in.

It's easy enough to find out the basics - rent, phone, other utilities, etc and get a monthly figure. Obviously your BF will have some idea as well. But I dare say that living in Yorkshire will be far easier on your purse than London.

I do see this type of comment a lot that it's much better on the purse-strings up North.  However, it isn't if you can't find a job or can't find one that pays anywhere near what you need.
When DW & I first moved to Britain, we looked all over the Greater Manchester area, I work in IT but could not find one job (granted, it was 2002).  I tried to apply for quite a few different ones but nothing came up.  In the expensive South, there were a few different opportunities paying similar to what I was getting back in the States which was pretty good.  When DW ended up finding a job in High Wycombe that sealed the deal even though our hearts were originally set on Manchester.

So I guess the morale of the story is that some of the towns and cities up North are only cheaper if you can earn a decent wage to fund your life there.

Having last been in the Greater Washington area before moving over here, we found the salaries and house prices pretty comparable to what we found in the Home Counties so I don't necessarily think it's always cheaper for all Americans.  Sure, certain restaurants and goods would be a little cheaper but overall I don't find it exceedingly different.

I don't know what the difference would be like coming from Michigan as I've not been to MI or anywhere in the upper midwest before.

Matt

Marlespo,

World keeps getting smaller. When did you live in Ann Arbor? And how long have you lived in Britain? Ann Arbor has been good to us, and we've loved our time here, but we're looking forward to this drastic change in our lives.

One question to everyone about cost of living. Some people say that a good rule of thumb is: fifty thousand pounds in the U.K. goes about as far as fifty thousand dollars in the U.S.  Does this really hold true?

It's important for us to be right in the city, so that our two teenagers can get around and be independent. (Do I know what I'm saying here?!)

You don't have to be "right in the city" for your teenagers to be able to independently get around.  We live in the Medway area in Kent and my 17-year-old is so independent sometimes I feel like we're merely a B&B to him...

I read elsewhere that you are moving to Bath - I still stand by my comment, though, as I don't think one has to live right in the heart of things in most UK towns in order to be independently mobile.  For the most part, I've had no complaints about public transport.

I missed this thread earlier, but now that we're finally a two salary couple I think I can comment on this subject without being bitter. LOL.

First, I completely agree that the biggest mistake ever is to convert everything. A dollar is a dollar and a pound is a pound. You'll drive yourself insane if you compare and convert constantly.

Also, I am 100% with Peedal that you won't necissarily be better off financially in the US.  DH and I were absolutely gobsmacked at how expensive things were on our last trip back. We had enough cash that we thought we'd be able to do loads but found that food, gas, etc. were EASILY as expensive as here.

As for salaries, £30K is a GREAT salary. Neither dh nor myself make that but we live very comfortably. We struggled to make it when I wasn't working, but now that I am we live the lifestyle that we want and we're totally fine. And we live just outside of London AND it costs me over £2K per year just in travel into London.

I'm another one who doesn't skimp very easily (I had a Summer of Skimping and I wasn't impressed by it! LOL.) We pay a lot in rent in order to have to sort of place we want, I use expensive skin care stuff and get expensive haircuts, we have Sky and we take relatively nice holidays. Granted we don't have or want kids, but I guess the bottom line is that we don't make loads and we do pretty well even in the London area....

**modified to add that yes, petrol is more expensive here than in the US. I just realized that my comment came out sort of wrong. What I meant was that when added up together, gas, food, etc. as a package ended up being as much as it is over here....

And hoping that bits of the coastline (including people's homes) aren't falling off into the North Sea...  Or is that only Happisburgh, Paul?

We're quite secure at Eccles in that respect.  Flooding is the main concern here as we're just about at sea level, but it would take a lot for the sea to get over the concrete defenses.    The floodgates on the access ramps are closed during winter as a precaution, but apparently the estate wasn't affected badly even during the east coast  floods in 1953, before the defenses were built.

As you say though, Happisburgh (about 2 miles north) is a different matter.  The cliffs are just crumbling away and the authorities have decided to do nothing.  A lot of people are very angry.   You can see some pictures of the erosion here:

http://www.happisburgh.org.uk/

Paul, we spent time in the Norfolk area on our honeymoon. It was really lovely.

I do see this type of comment a lot that it's much better on the purse-strings up North.  However, it isn't if you can't find a job or can't find one that pays anywhere near what you need.

One thing I'd like to point out is that salaries are usually commensurate with cost of living. For example, when I worked for the New York State court, people in New York City got cost of living adjustments and got paid higher salaries than people with the same job titles, skills and experience living in other parts of the state. The company that I work for now pays higher salaries to people who live in London than people who live in other parts of the UK.  But a flat or house in London is a lot more expensive than elsewhere. I earn less money in York than I did in New York, but my 2-bedroom flat here costs less than my 1-bedroom apartment did in New York.

Its all relative isn't it? Everyone has a yardstick to compare their standard of living in the US vs. the UK. 

BTW - Two years on I still compare the £ to the $. Wish I was someone who didn't!!