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Topic: Borderline Student Visa  (Read 1924 times)

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Borderline Student Visa
« on: November 09, 2005, 09:12:50 PM »
Here's the deal:

Arriving in the UK on 26 Dec 2005.
Studying at Lancaster University 13 Jan 2006 - June 30 2006.
Leaving the UK beginning of July (probably between 3-5).

Therefore, I'm going to be in the UK (hopefully) 6.5 months.

My course of study is just UNDER 6 months.


It says on the British Consulate site:
http://www.britainusa.com/visas/other_show.asp?SarticleType=25&Other_ID=615    (see below for excerpt)

 "United States citizens (and other non-visa nationals) do not require entry clearance to enter the United Kingdom to follow a course of study for less than six months.

However, United States citizens (and some other non-visa nationals) require entry clearance to study in the United Kingdom for six months or more."

The visitor's visa is only 6 months so I can't apply for that.  Should I still apply for a student visa of more than 6 months?  I don't want to be in the country illegally so this seems like my only option. 

I'm asking because then the student visa would allow me to work in the UK when in actuality, I would be studying for less than 6 months (shouldn't be able to legally work).  Also this visa would allow me care under NHS (students over 6 months are granted care) and I shouldn't legally be able to have that either.  Should I include something when I send for my visa to explain that I'm going to be in the UK just over six months to visit for Christmas and New Year's beforehand and to travel a bit after my study (I haven't booked a flight yet so they could think I'm traveling for a month or something)?  I'm just wondering if you think they'll grant me the student visa because I'm only studying just under 6 months and technically Lancaster told me to arrive on January 10th.  I'm going to send my flight itinerary to show that I've already booked my flight.  Do you think I'll get the student visa?  I'm not sure what to do.  Thanks.  :) 


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2005, 09:16:06 PM »
Also, I really would LIKE to be able to work so if they do grant me the visa, then can I legally work?  Even though technically I really shouldn't be able to?  I would feel like I'm doing something illegal even if I had the visa that said I could.  It's a sticky situation!


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2005, 09:38:34 PM »
does it say you can't work on a student visa under 6 months? It doesn't seem clear.

I'd say go for the 6 month visa and get the entry clearance since if you came as a tourist there is the possibility you could be turned away... I always consider the dreaded "what ifs" too!  :P It seems a bit iffy to apply for the year but you are only registered for less than 6 months. Call and see what the consulate has to say.

did you ever find the answer to whether a student visa counts towards the total 6 months visit allowance in a year?

Could you pop over to the continent and re-enter as a tourist before your student visa expires?... of course you'd have to stop working before then.


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2005, 10:07:23 PM »
does it say you can't work on a student visa under 6 months? It doesn't seem clear.

I'd say go for the 6 month visa and get the entry clearance since if you came as a tourist there is the possibility you could be turned away... I always consider the dreaded "what ifs" too!  :P It seems a bit iffy to apply for the year but you are only registered for less than 6 months. Call and see what the consulate has to say.

did you ever find the answer to whether a student visa counts towards the total 6 months visit allowance in a year?

Could you pop over to the continent and re-enter as a tourist before your student visa expires?... of course you'd have to stop working before then.

I've read students UNDER six months cannot work.  I'm not worried about getting in on a visitors visa, I'll have my acceptance letter, bank statement, and everything else with me anyway.  I'm worried about overstaying and being illegal.  I want to make sure that I'm covered but not sure if they will issue me the visa.  I'm not sure about the student visa counting toward a 6 months visit allowance because if I get the visa beforehand I can stay more than 6 months anyway.  If I dont' get it beforehand then they'll give me a visitors and that's only 6 months, either way it wouldn't matter.  Garry can you help please?!??

Thanks for your help jklm!!! :) 


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2005, 10:09:31 PM »
does it say you can't work on a student visa under 6 months? It doesn't seem clear.


Oh I get what you're saying... I don't think there is a "STUDENT visa" under six months.  They just let you in on a visitor visa and you can study for six months or less.  And you can't work on a visitors visa.


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2005, 10:13:35 PM »
Call and see what the consulate has to say.


I would call but it's $2.10 a minute!!! That's more than a 900 number to talk to sexy sounding women. LOL  I'm trying to avoid calling :)


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2005, 12:46:50 AM »
Hey, I was just over in the UK last spring studying for under 6 months..I left after 4.5, though.  I don't know about your uni, but at mine (Sheffield), I was granted NHS-type care (not sure if it was official NHS) but ONLY at the University's Health Service.  I couldn't have gone and registered at a GP anywhere in Sheffield, but at the University's health center I didn't have to pay for anything.  Could have gotten a meningitis vaccine for free but did in the States instead for $80 *grumble grumble*

About the 6 months thing...I was always under the impression from the stuff that Sheffield sent me that students on a course less than 6 months could in fact work, but that you had to ask for it (and of course, prove you don't need to work to support yourself.) I could be completely wrong on that, though, so don't take my word for it.

I really don't know if they'd let you apply for a student visa since your course is technically less than 6 months- technically, any time outside term time would be as a visitor, and not a student (and at immigration I was granted entrance as a student, not as a visitor, even though I didn't need a visa.)  Tricky situation, though....

Edited to add- when I was at Gatwick, the immigration officer stamped this in my passport- didn't say I couldn't work, but that it had to be authorized.  It's from this page under "students and work permit holders." There's also this stamp which clearly states work is not allowed- it just makes sense to me that if they had granted me leave to enter as a visitor this or something similar is what I would have gotten.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2005, 02:26:17 AM by Rose »
Now a triple citizen!

Student visa 9/06-->Int'l Grad Scheme 1/08-->FLR(M) 7/08-->ILR 6/10-->British citizenship 12/12


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2005, 01:19:53 AM »
sorry luxie, I hope you don't mind me helping you trying to figure out the visa stuff. I am in the middle of getting my work permit visa and entry clearance so I am very familiar with the visa website and I just like to point out my understanding of things.

No you don't need a visa according to the site. Try this site
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1006977149962

Take note of this message:

"Change to visa requirements from 13 November 2005
From 13 November 2005 all those who are not British or EEA nationals will need a visa or entry clearance for all stays in the UK over six months."

If you are American, currently in the US and wanting to study under 6 months this is the response you get:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/UKVisasDoINeedAVisa?url=%2Fservlet%2FFront%3Fpagename%3DOpenMarket%2FXcelerate%2FShowPage%26c%3DPage%26cid%3D1006977149962&purpose=Student+six+months+or+less&nationality=United+States&location=United+States

"You asked if a national of United States needs a visa to come to the UK as a student for six months or less.

No, you do not need a visa.

On arrival in the UK you must satisfy an immigration officer that you qualify for entry to the United Kingdom as a student for six months or less under the Immigration Rules.

Students
Please note that if you are allowed to enter the UK as a student for up to six months, you will not be allowed to extend your stay unless you arrived with a student or prospective student visa, or are studying on a course at degree level or higher.

Please read Guidance - Students for further information. Your sponsor, if you have one, may want to read Guidance - Sponsors.

N.B. Even though you do not need a visa, if you have previously been refused a visa for, or entry to, the UK you may want to apply for one to find out if you qualify for entry before you travel. Please contact Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York for further information."


The guidance notes has TONS of info to help answer your questions including about you working.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1018721067373

"Can I work?
You can take part-time or holiday work, but you must not:

work for more than 20 hours a week during term time unless your placement is part of your studies, has been agreed with your educational institution and leads to a degree or qualification awarded by a nationally recognised examining body
do business, be self-employed or provide services as a professional sportsperson or entertainer, or
work full-time in a permanent job.
If you are coming to the UK as a student for six months or less, you must ask the Entry Clearance Officer for permission to work."

Here is the part about extending your stay"

"If you do not need an entry clearance, you will have to satisfy the Immigration Officer that you qualify for entry when you arrive in the UK. They will then give you permission to stay in the UK for six months. You will not be allowed to extend your stay in the UK as a student unless you arrived with a student or prospective student visa, or you are studying on a course at degree level or higher.

To extend your stay you will need to apply for a residence permit at the Immigration and Nationality Directorate. (Contact details are under 'More advice and information' at the end of this guidance.) They will charge you a fee for this.

If you have any doubts about whether you qualify for entry, you should apply for a visa before you travel to the UK. "

but it doesn't clarify if you need to change it to a visitor's visa for the time beyond the student visa.



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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2005, 01:26:51 AM »
following from jklm's post...

there's also this little paragraph:
Quote
Can I go to the UK to arrange my studies?
You can travel to the UK as a prospective student for up to six months to arrange your studies. You will need to show that:

you intend to enroll on a course of study within six months of arriving in the UK
you can pay for your course, support yourself and your dependants, and live without working or needing any help from public funds, and
you intend to leave the UK when you finish your studies or when your permission to stay ends if you do not qualify to stay in the UK as a student.

So maybe you can go over as a prospective student then switch in-country?  Seems like it'd be a lot of hassle just for the three weeks before your course starts, though...
Now a triple citizen!

Student visa 9/06-->Int'l Grad Scheme 1/08-->FLR(M) 7/08-->ILR 6/10-->British citizenship 12/12


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2005, 01:27:36 AM »
I don't know who answers these numbers or if they will entertain your questions, but it is worth a try.

British Consulate-General
11766 Wilshire Blvd, Suite 1200
Los Angeles, CA 90025

Tel: (310) 481 0031
Fax: (310) 481 2960

Visa Tel : (310) 481-2900
Visa Fax: (310) 481 2961

British Consulate-General
The Wrigley Building, 13th Floor
400 N Michigan Avenue
Chicago, IL 60611

Tel: (312) 970-3800
Fax: (312) 970-3852

British Consulate-General
845 Third Avenue
New York, NY 10022

Tel: (212) 745-0200
Fax: (212) 754-3062


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2005, 02:15:33 AM »
Here's the deal:

Arriving in the UK on 26 Dec 2005.
Studying at Lancaster University 13 Jan 2006 - June 30 2006.
Leaving the UK beginning of July (probably between 3-5).

Therefore, I'm going to be in the UK (hopefully) 6.5 months.

My course of study is just UNDER 6 months.


If you get caught staying here longer than 6 mos they will put a wonderful stamp in your passport and  deny you entry in the future. It has happened to a colleague of mine. Its not worth it if you hope to return in the future. Immigration will look thru your passport for previous entry and exit stamps. Shooting off to the continent for a few days will not work.


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2005, 03:34:47 AM »
Luxie is VERY aware of the consequences of overstaying so she is trying to figure out how to extend her stay legally.

The question I asked was whether a student visa for 6 months counts towards the maximum amount a person may stay in the country... or can a person change to a visitor and have 6 months on that type of entrance visa. Or ideally, if she can just get her student visa to cover the couple of weeks beyond 6 months.


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Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2005, 03:47:10 AM »
So is there no fiance visa for just a visit? It reads like you MUST marry in the the UK only if you will enter on this type of visa. What if you can prove you intend to marry in the US in just a few months (which you are, best wishes)... plus show intent to move to the UK in Sept 2006? Seems silly if they don't have some sort of loophole for this.


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2005, 04:01:06 AM »

If you get caught staying here longer than 6 mos they will put a wonderful stamp in your passport and  deny you entry in the future. It has happened to a colleague of mine. Its not worth it if you hope to return in the future. Immigration will look thru your passport for previous entry and exit stamps. Shooting off to the continent for a few days will not work.


Thanks cicero for pointing that out.  I really do not want to be there illegally so that's why I'm trying to get this all sorted before flying over in Dec.  It's not clear exactly what I should do... :-\\\\


Thanks a lot JKLM and Rose!  I've been looking at the British consulate site extensively as well. 

"Students
Please note that if you are allowed to enter the UK as a student for up to six months, you will not be allowed to extend your stay unless you arrived with a student or prospective student visa, or are studying on a course at degree level or higher."


Is degree level college then?  I know that I can just go over for six months or less.  There's no problem there.  It's because I want to go for 6.5 months.

I don't know what to do.  I'm at a loss.  It looks like they won't grant me a student visa if my actual studies are for less than 6 months.  Worst case senario I guess I'll have to be in the UK Dec 26 - June 26.  My course technically ends on June 30th but I doubt I'll have any exams or anything I can't take earlier for these extenuating circumstances.  I guess I'll have to leave on June 26 if I really can't get a visa for longer.  I think it might be worthless to pay the non refundable $162 to try to get for a visa, not to mention getting refused and that going on my record.  Especially since I'll be applying for a spousal visa later next year. 

I'll try to give the numbers a call in Chicago.  Thanks for those jklm!!!  And of course I don't mind anyone trying to help, the more minds the better, some of this stuff is so confusing to me!  :)


Re: Borderline Student Visa
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2005, 04:06:01 AM »
So is there no fiance visa for just a visit? It reads like you MUST marry in the the UK only if you will enter on this type of visa. What if you can prove you intend to marry in the US in just a few months (which you are, best wishes)... plus show intent to move to the UK in Sept 2006? Seems silly if they don't have some sort of loophole for this.


I could have my pastor write a letter and also show the contract for the reception booking on September 2nd.  I think that would be intent to return.  I'm doubtful I'll get the visa though, I guess after reading it 109384098 times it's pretty clear that your studies must be over six months.  Maybe the stamp that Rose got they would write a later date on it.  If they give me a "leave to remain" could they just write like "July 5" or something?

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/0/preventing_illegal/uk_passport_stamps.Maincontent.0052.file.tmp/p42%20-%20stamp%203.jpg
« Last Edit: November 10, 2005, 04:11:08 AM by Luxie »


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