Shades of grey - "volunteering" on the Fiancee visa

Alright - I shall state that I know off the bat that volunteering on the Fiancee visa is against the rules.

The problem is, I'm not certain how far this rule extends, hence the "shades of grey"...

1st example: I've been asked to help out with a friend's Brownie troop, be an extra adult at the meetings. Since this is a role that a parent would traditionally (grudgingly) fulfill, I am assuming this is volunteer?

2nd example: I've been asked to illustrate stories for a magazine a friend is putting together - she is unpaid, but the magazine is funded by advertisers and will be distributed to public schools. I can't even begin to think where this would fall.

Thanks so much - I'd like to help my friends, but I'd hate to break the rules!! 

My feeling is that helping out at a Brownie troop is not 'volunteer work', but is 'attending a meeting', but that working on a magazine is working...but I agree, it is grey, and I am sure someone else would have a different opinion.

Vicky

There is a thing in the UK called a CRB form - Criminal Records Bureau.  Some volunteer organizations require their volunteers to fill one out.  I think it's mostly for volunteering with children, but I am not sure of the exact rules.  This form asks for very detailed information and you have to provide copies of your passport picture page and the visa in your passport. 

Just something to keep in mind when voluneteering.  If they ask you to fill out one of these forms, you probably won't get approved on a Fiance visa. 

I would be cautious about number 1, only because it involves children and a CRB should be filled out.  But number two doesn't sound like it falls under volunteering in the strictest sense of the word. 

Number 2 sounds dodgier to me, as there is remuneration involved somewhere in the chain.

Do Brownie helpers really need the CRB check?  Good God, how awful.

Vicky

Yes....how awful that generally good intentioned mums would have to go through it,  but good that any old psychopath off the street can't just sign up to be a troop leader.  I have never minded the criminal checks for volunteering.  It just makes sense and hopefully keeps people with the wrong intentions away from kids.

If you are just helping out occasionally.....and not being "in charge" or being left alone with the children I wouldn't think you would need a CRB.

We can't volunteer on Fiance visa?!?!?! Why not?

The rules state that you cannot take work, whether paid or unpaid.  This is why it is a grey area...is helping at a Brownie meeting 'unpaid work', or is it just attending a meeting and helping out?


Vicky

Not even in the garden? What about doing the dishes? 

Not even in the garden? What about doing the dishes? 

Sounds like a perfect way to get your fiancee to do work around the house. Sorry Sweetie...but my visa doesn't allow me to work!! (why didn't I think about it ---too late now  already married!)

Not even in the garden? What about doing the dishes? 

Hehehe!  Good call!

Your visa only allows you to sit in the sunshine sipping Pimms!!!


 

Vicky

Could example two be considered a non-compensated Entertainment or Performance?

Or what about a hobby of which the result of the hobby was given to another party.  If I did a bunch of sketches or doodles, and didn't sell them, but just gave them to somebody, would there be any issue with that?

Here's what I found on the IND website, directed to employers, regarding voluntary work:

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawandpolicy/preventingillegalworking/somequestionsyoumighthave



Q52. Can I be prosecuted under section 8 if I am found to be providing voluntary work to someone without permission to work in the UK?

A. Section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 makes it a criminal offence to employ an individual who has no permission to work in the United Kingdom, or where their conditions of stay do not entitle them to take the employment in question.

For the purposes of section 8, a contract of employment can be a contract of service or apprenticeship, whether express or implied. If the contract is expressed this can be either orally or in writing.

Immigration Rules prevent certain categories of entrant from engaging in voluntary work or voluntary activity, such as visitors and au pairs. However, the legal distinction between an employee and a volunteer can be quite complex and there are huge differences between the types of voluntary work or voluntary activity that people can be engaged in. We would not wish to give advice which might lay voluntary organisations open to prosecution for employing people illegally. We would therefore strongly recommend that organisations seek independent legal advice for their specific volunteering activity.

In terms of liability for prosecution under section 8, it is the contract of employment that is the determining factor for whether a person is employed or not. Where there is no contract of employment between the parties concerned, the Immigration Service would not seek to prosecute organisations where voluntary activity is taking place. However persons subject to immigration control should comply with their conditions of entry, including any prohibition on voluntary activity.

and

Q59. Can I be prosecuted under section 8 if I am found to be providing voluntary work to someone without permission to work in the UK?

A. Section 8 of the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 makes it a criminal offence to employ an individual who has no permission to work in the United Kingdom, or where their conditions of stay do not entitle them to take the employment in question.

For the purposes of section 8, a contract of employment can be a contract of service or apprenticeship, whether express or implied. If the contract is expressed this can be either orally or in writing. However, it is not the policy of the United Kingdom Immigration Service to pursue prosecutions under Section 8 against those organisations who may engage the services of individuals on a voluntary basis, and where there is no evidence of a contract of employment or service existing between the parties concerned.


and

Q60. What is the difference between “volunteering” and “unpaid work”? For example, if a posting entitles a participant to observe what happens in a clinical setting in the UK, does this contravene the “no work” endorsement stamp in their passport?

A. Voluntary activity should not amount to either employment, or job substitution. There is a fundamental difference in the nature of the activity itself and the specific exclusion of work (whether it is paid or unpaid) as defined in the individual passport, should not include voluntary activity where it is clearly undertaken as such.

In terms of liability for prosecution under section 8, it is the contract of employment that is the determining factor for whether a person is “employed” or not, therefore, the Immigration Service would not seek to prosecute organisations where voluntary activity is taking place and no contract of employment exists between the concerned parties.


Bolding is my emphasis.

I say go to the brownies meeting! They aren't going to hire someone to take your place, and you aren't signing a contract. Leave no paper trail!

 

And here is the section 8 they are referring to:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/96049--b.htm#8

Snips:

In this section-
 
  "contract of employment" means a contract of service or apprenticeship, whether express or implied, and (if it is express) whether it is oral or in writing;
  "employ" means employ under a contract of employment and "employment" shall be construed accordingly.

I would still be a bit careful about giving out that advice trisatek, because what this is saying is "will I, as the person providing the work, get in trouble" it does not make any statements to if the person who has the visa will get in trouble.

Just because you don't have an employment contract doesn't mean you are not working.