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Topic: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?  (Read 4765 times)

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Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« on: December 07, 2006, 06:41:31 PM »
The student resource guide I was looking at states the following about the terms in which one receives home fees:

In order to qualify for home fees under this category, you must meet all of the following criteria:
(i) you must be 'settled' in the UK [see Box 1] on the 'first day of the first academic year of the course' (or equivalent
date in Scotland) [see Box 2]
AND
(ii) you must also have been 'ordinarily resident' [see Box 3] in the UK and Islands (the Islands means the Channel
Islands and the Isle of Man) for the full 3 year period before the 'first day of the first academic year of the course'.
(For example, if your course begins in October 2006, you must have been ordinarily resident in the UK and Islands
from 1 September 2003 to 31 August 2006)
AND
(iii) the main purpose for your residence in the UK and islands must not have been to receive full-time education
during any part of that three year period.
NOTE: It is not necessary to have been 'settled' in the UK [see Box 1] for three years.


Box 1 defines "settled" :

'SETTLED'
'Settled' means being ordinarily resident in the UK
without any immigration restriction on the length
of your stay in the UK. The fees regulations refer to
immigration law for the definition of ‘settled’. To be
'settled' you must either have the Right of Abode or
Indefinite Leave to Enter or Remain in the UK or have
the right of permanent residence in the UK under
EU law. If your passport describes you as a ‘British
citizen’, then you have the ‘Right of Abode’. Certain
categories exempt from time limits on their stay in
the UK, however, do not come within the definition
of ‘settled’ – for example, diplomats and members
of their households do not have specified time limits
on their permission to stay in the UK but they are
not ‘settled’ under the relevant immigration law.
NOTE: those who are ‘settled’ through having
acquired the right of permanent residence under
European Community (EC) law do not qualify as
‘home’ students under category 1 but may qualify
under category 2, 2A, 2B or 3.



AND box 3 "ordinary resident"

ORDINARILY RESIDENT
You are 'ordinarily resident' in the relevant residence
area (which is either the UK and Islands or the EEA and
Switzerland, depending on the category and its qualifying
conditions) if you have habitually, normally and
lawfully resided in that area from choice. Temporary
absences from the residence area should be ignored.
If you can demonstrate that you have not been ordinarily
resident in the relevant residence area only because you,
or your ‘relevant family member’, were temporarily
working outside the relevant residence area, you
will be treated as though you have been ordinarily
resident for the period during which this was the case.
MAIN PURPOSE OF RESIDENCE BEING
FULL-TIME EDUCATION
Where a category includes a condition that the main
purpose of your residence must not have been to receive
full-time education, a useful question to ask is: “if you
had not been in full-time education, where would you
have been ordinarily resident?”. If the answer is “outside
the relevant residence area” this would indicate that the
main purpose for your residence was full-time education.
If the answer is that you would have been resident in
the relevant residence area even if you had not been in
full-time education, this would indicate that full-time
education was not the main purpose for your residence
in the relevant area.



If I am reading this correctly, when Mark and I wed and I move to the UK on a spouse visa, I would qualify for home tuition fees? My reason for settling would be that of marriage.  Also, can you apply for indeffinate leave to remain right after you enter the UK on a spouse visa?

thanks,
Nicky


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2006, 06:51:04 PM »
You'll apply for ILR two years after you move to the UK on your spousal visa. 

They're saying you need to be

a) resident in the UK on the first day of the course
AND
b) have been resident in the UK for the three years prior to beginning the course
AND
c) your purpose in living in the UK is not primarily to study (otherwise you would've applied for a student visa)

Based on your previous posts, you would not qualify for home fees for three years, so if you moved here January 2007, you'd qualify for home fees in January 2010.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2006, 06:53:24 PM by Lola »


Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2006, 08:59:32 PM »
then what does this line indicate?

NOTE: It is not necessary to have been 'settled' in the UK [see Box 1] for three years

Governments sure have a way of being excessively wordy  :-\\\\


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2006, 09:23:33 PM »
What Lola said is correct.  However, if you go part time, you may qualify for home fees.  Full time students usually require a student visa if they are international students.  You'll have to pay international fees until you've been a resident for 3 years.

What you posted means if you're a British citizen who's been living abroad, you can pay home student fees because you have 'Right of Abode'.  You don't have that right now.  You will after you've got ILR.
Love your life, poor as it is. You may perhaps have some pleasant, thrilling, glorious hours, even in a poorhouse. The setting sun is reflected from the windows of the almshouse as brightly as from the rich man’s abode; the snow melts before its doors as early in the spring. Cultivate property like a garden herb, like sage. Do not trouble yourself much to get new things, whether clothes or friends. Turn the old; return to them. Things do not change; we change. Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts…


Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2006, 09:54:58 PM »
would i need a student visa in addition to a spousal visa?


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2006, 10:03:35 PM »
would i need a student visa in addition to a spousal visa?

No, you would simply pay Overseas Student fees.  I am in this exact situation.  I wont be elegible to Home Student fees for another 2 years or so.  It sucks but those are the rules!

June


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2006, 10:39:42 PM »
What you posted means if you're a British citizen who's been living abroad, you can pay home student fees because you have 'Right of Abode'.  You don't have that right now.  You will after you've got ILR.

That's incorrect.  The line Trickynicky quoted (about it not being necessary to have been settled for 3 years) means that you don't need to have had ILR (which constitutes "settlement" for non-Brits) for the full three years of qualifying residence- pretty much any residence outside of a student visa qualifies towards the three years, including fiancee/spousal visas.  However, you must have ILR by September 1 of the year you begin studies, in addition to having been resident for three years.

In the case of British Citizens living abroad- they will obviously be considered "settled" in the UK from the moment they arrive.  However, even British citizens need to complete three years of residence before they will qualify for home fees...it's not automatic just because they're British.

One last point- ILR holders do not have Right of Abode.  That is reserved for British citizens only (and certain Commonwealth citizens who acquired RoA under some obscure provisions of British nationality law decades ago.)
Now a triple citizen!

Student visa 9/06-->Int'l Grad Scheme 1/08-->FLR(M) 7/08-->ILR 6/10-->British citizenship 12/12


Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2006, 02:33:11 PM »
My plan is to go for at least my masters in psychology, and then 95% sure on to the PH D.  Now, 3 years for a bachelors at say, Sussex University with overseas fees are going to be about 33,000 pounds. In 3 years, I'll be 24 almost 25... something I consider a bit of a late start. If I started next fall, I'd be 22, I'd finish my Bachelors at 25, my masters at 27 and my PH D at 29-30. If I dont start until 25... Im going to be in school a while, putting off starting a family  :(

Would anyone with experience in dealing with overseas fees/loans vs. the home fees/loans recommend waiting 3 years for schooling or is 33,000 pounds something that can be paid off (ie, im not still paying on it in my 40s and 50s.)

Any advice?


Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2007, 09:36:54 PM »
Sorry to reitterate & repeat questions...  But I had two visas in 2005 (which is when I moved over).  I'm planning on re-entering Uni in fall '08.  I initially entered the UK on a (BUNAC) work visa - which I initially moved over on in May '05.  Left the country, got married and then moved back in November '05 on my spousal visa...  Does my first visa count towards my residency or is it just my spousal visa?   :-\\\\  Cheers!


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2007, 10:40:52 PM »
Sorry to reitterate & repeat questions...  But I had two visas in 2005 (which is when I moved over).  I'm planning on re-entering Uni in fall '08.  I initially entered the UK on a (BUNAC) work visa - which I initially moved over on in May '05.  Left the country, got married and then moved back in November '05 on my spousal visa...  Does my first visa count towards my residency or is it just my spousal visa?   :-\\\\  Cheers!

The three years start when you enter the country with the intention of settlement, in this case, on your spousal visa.  I believe that a work visa does not count towards the residency requirement since it is not a settlement visa.  I could be wrong about that but I am pretty sure that is how it goes.

June


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2007, 11:03:31 PM »
However, if you go part time, you may qualify for home fees.  Full time students usually require a student visa if they are international students.  You'll have to pay international fees until you've been a resident for 3 years.

You shouldn't qualify for home fees by going part time. UCL certainly wasn't going to have it with the Master's course I applied for, nor would the unversity I work at now.

The line I got from both UCL and the university I work at is that in order to pay home fees you have to have lived in the UK for three years. This means you cannot enroll in a part time two year course and pay overseas fees one year and home fees the next. You have to pay overseas fees for both years as you were classified as an overseas student when you started the course.

The information I got came from two heads of the postgraduate registry.
12/08/09 - Citizenship submitted via NCS
17/08/09 - Payment taken from account
18/09/09 - Citizenship approved, invitation to ceremony, dated 12/09/09
03/11/09 - Citizenship ceremony


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2007, 11:09:14 PM »
The three years start when you enter the country with the intention of settlement, in this case, on your spousal visa.  I believe that a work visa does not count towards the residency requirement since it is not a settlement visa.  I could be wrong about that but I am pretty sure that is how it goes.

June

Yes, but it does count toward citizenship. I was told that if I had my citizenship on hand when I planned on starting the course, both universities would consider me as a home student. This is because the government counts a BUNAC stay towards the three years for citizenship, and both universities said they would as well regarding fees.

I'm in the identical situation. Came in on BUNAC, stayed for 6 months, went home for 3 and reentered on my LLR.

Keep in mind that the situation could change. Additionally, it is a lot easier to get into uni as an international student than a home student. You are worth a lot more money to them and for a one year postgraduate course, saving yourself £6,000 might not be worth the income you could make.

12/08/09 - Citizenship submitted via NCS
17/08/09 - Payment taken from account
18/09/09 - Citizenship approved, invitation to ceremony, dated 12/09/09
03/11/09 - Citizenship ceremony


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 05:39:42 AM »
You shouldn't qualify for home fees by going part time. UCL certainly wasn't going to have it with the Master's course I applied for, nor would the unversity I work at now.

No, you *shouldn't*, but it's still a legitimate loophole at some universities (seem to be getting fewer these days, though.)  I'd say many or most unis now have some sort of fee schedule for overseas part-time students, but some of them still don't...and at those universities it may be possible to get home fees by going part time before 3 years of residence (we have a least one member of this forum who did just that.)

I believe that a work visa does not count towards the residency requirement since it is not a settlement visa.  I could be wrong about that but I am pretty sure that is how it goes.

A BUNAC visa probably doesn't count towards the three years since it's really just a glorified visitor's visa, but regular employment visas (ie work permits and HSMP) do count as residence for the purpose of home fees.  The only long-term visa that for sure doesn't count is a student visa (for obvious reasons.)
Now a triple citizen!

Student visa 9/06-->Int'l Grad Scheme 1/08-->FLR(M) 7/08-->ILR 6/10-->British citizenship 12/12


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Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 11:04:02 AM »
The general rule of thumb is this.

In order to qualify for home status, you must be 'settled' at the time of application, and must have been 'resident' in the UK for the pervious three years.

Settled means having ILR.
Resident means being legally in the UK in any category OTHER than as a student.

So, if you have been in the UK for one year on a work permit, then switched to spousal, then got ILR after two years on that, you will qualify.

I must admit that I am not 100 sure about BUNAC - I can see arguments from both sides.  Is it a glorified visit visa or a less good work permit?  I am inclined to think that it won't count, but I would always check with the institution first.

Victoria



Re: Home vs. overseas tuition, do i understand this correctly?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2007, 12:10:56 AM »
Vicky is correct.   ;D

And as a side note - BUNAC visas do count.  I checked with IND myself by email.  If you have any concerns yourself you can contact them at: nationalityenquiries@ind.homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk - just be sure to give them as much information as possible.

Good luck to other prospective students! ~ Christine


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