Concerning the Chicago Office, Fiancee Visas, etc.

Ok, so David & I aren't officially engaged, yet, but we've certainly been talking about it. That's why I'm in England, after all. It isn't just to eat beans. So anyway, if all goes to plan I'll be going to the Chicago Visa Wonderland in January to apply for a fiancee visa. (I'll be in the US from November 25 - January 10 on holiday with my family, and holiday with David).

So... here are my questions:

1. Office opens at 9:00 (except the 1st Wed of every month it's 9:30) - how early would we get there? Should we pack a picnic? Bring a tent?

2. Anyone had bad experiences with the Chicago peeps? We'd get a hotel for that night anyway, just in case it took longer than a day, plus we're only a 3 hour drive from my mom & dad's house, where I'll be staying.

3. I'd plan on staying in England for 6 months (starting January) and then getting married IN AMERICA around the 4th of July or so... do they care which country we actually marry in? The consulate's website (which I've dug into deeply) makes it sound like it has to be in England.

4. And then I'd go to Chicago to get the spousal visa, right? To get back into the UK?

5. It really, really is a multiple entry Visa right? That's what the Consulate's website says, but i could have sworn I heard someone say it was a single-entry visa, so if I went back to the US during the 6 months the Visa was no longer valid. I've got to be in America in April to be the maid of honor in another wedding, and it would stink to high heaven if I couldn't get back into England after that.

OK, thanks.  

Hey Marlespo, I'll try and shed some light on the Chicago Situation as best I can:

1. Office opens at 9:00 (except the 1st Wed of every month it's 9:30) - how early would we get there? Should we pack a picnic? Bring a tent?  

I don't know if this is always the case, but I got there at about 9.45 and only had to wait about 30 minutes.  The information gathering sesson took another 30-40 and I was out of there.  I didn't come back in the afternoon for my passport.  I had it sent fed ex (ten dollars) to my parents and it was there the next day.

2. Anyone had bad experiences with the Chicago peeps? We'd get a hotel for that night anyway, just in case it took longer than a day, plus we're only a 3 hour drive from my mom & dad's house, where I'll be staying.

I didn't have any problems.  Everyone has said it a thousand times, but bring every scrap of paper work you can possibly think of.  Use the list on the website and if in doubt phone them up and ask.  They were getting sick of the sound of my voice by the time I got there.

3. I'd plan on staying in England for 6 months (starting January) and then getting married IN AMERICA around the 4th of July or so... do they care which country we actually marry in? The consulate's website (which I've dug into deeply) makes it sound like it has to be in England.

Well the way I understand it, in that situation you wouldn't need a finacee visa.  You would just apply for a spousal visa after you are married.  But you might have the same problems for David going over there that you had coming over here.  Not sure how to make that easier for you.

4. And then I'd go to Chicago to get the spousal visa, right? To get back into the UK?

yes.

5. It really, really is a multiple entry Visa right? That's what the Consulate's website says, but i could have sworn I heard someone say it was a single-entry visa, so if I went back to the US during the 6 months the Visa was no longer valid. I've got to be in America in April to be the maid of honor in another wedding, and it would stink to high heaven if I couldn't get back into England after that.

Unless they have changed it since February, mine was definately a multi entry visa

Hope this helps, let me know if I can help out any other way!

I said:

I'd plan on staying in England for 6 months (starting January) and then getting married IN AMERICA around the 4th of July or so... do they care which country we actually marry in? The consulate's website (which I've dug into deeply) makes it sound like it has to be in England.

 

You said:

Well the way I understand it, in that situation you wouldn't need a finacee visa.  You would just apply for a spousal visa after you are married.  But you might have the same problems for David going over there that you had coming over here.  Not sure how to make that easier for you.

After we'd get married (in July) I'm still planning on living in England with him. The problem is getting back into England in January. There's no way on God's green Earth that Immigration will let me back into the country on my passport (given my past experience), so a fiancee visa seems like the only way to go for me. I mean, we're planning on "settling" in England anyway (for a while anyway), so that's why I was thinking a Fiancee Visa is appropriate. The only difference is the actual ceremony is in America, though we'll only be in the US for a week for that. So... am I thinking on the right lines then?

Thanks LOADS, glasgow-girl... you're the sweetest. Feel like I need all the information I can get.

As for the documentation, I've gone to the website and made a list of everything they require, and other things I'll bring for "just in case", and will make an annotated binder for it all. Miss Anal Organization here.  

I'm going to call the Consulate directly tonight to ask them about this... I'll let y'all know what they say. To be fair, we haven't decided which country we want to get married in once we are really engaged, we just want to get all the info we can about having it either way. Stay tuned...

Sara,

I know you had a terrible time coming in.  But the problem is, you're going to pay $416 for a Fiancee Visa which basically says you are entering the UK to get married IN THE UK - then you're going to return to the US and get married there, then have to pay ANOTHER $416 (or whatever the exchange amount is by then) for a Spouse Visa to actually return and settle in the UK.

My suggestion would be that if you are officially engaged by the time you leave in January and you've actually decided where to get married, then your options might be (a) if getting married in UK, get the Visa - it's a same-day thing and you don't have to plan too far ahead to do it as long as you start amassing your paperwork now; or (b) if getting married in US, have proof of arrangements you've made and deposits you've paid for said marriage so that Immigration KNOWS you're returning to the US for this momentous event and not sneaking in to do it sans Visa.

What part of your return visit to the US is David going to be with you for?

Let us know what the Consulate says.  Obviously, this doesn't affect my situation, but I'm terribly curious if they're just going to tell you to apply for the Fiancee Visa AND the Spouse Visa just to get their money!!  

Sorry, I completely misunderstood what you were trying to say about coming back for the wedding.  I have to admit I don't really have any advice about that situation, but what Peedal had to say above sounds about right.  Let us know what you found out.

1. Office opens at 9:00 (except the 1st Wed of every month it's 9:30) - how early would we get there? Should we pack a picnic? Bring a tent?

We got there right at 9 and were the first ones in line.  We thought that there might be a huge amount of people but there weren't.  It only took us about 20-25 minutes and then we were done.  

2. Anyone had bad experiences with the Chicago peeps? We'd get a hotel for that night anyway, just in case it took longer than a day, plus we're only a 3 hour drive from my mom & dad's house, where I'll be staying.

We didn't.  Everyone there was really nice.  

3. I'd plan on staying in England for 6 months (starting January) and then getting married IN AMERICA around the 4th of July or so... do they care which country we actually marry in? The consulate's website (which I've dug into deeply) makes it sound like it has to be in England.

I honestly don't see why it would make any difference where you married.  You could get married in Bali or Mexico and what difference would it make?  I don't really see how they can tell you that you MUST marry in England.  If someone were to tell you that, I would want it confirmed by a higher up.  In fact, I'd want it in writing and then probably consult a solicitor.  I just don't see how legally, they can force you to marry in the UK alone.  

4. And then I'd go to Chicago to get the spousal visa, right? To get back into the UK?

My question here is why?  If you have a fiancee visa and get married in the US why not just come back to the UK on your fiancee visa and then go to Immigration to apply for your spousal visa?  Or if you really wanted to do it in Chicago, I would call them to ensure that they WILL do it in the first place.  

5. It really, really is a multiple entry Visa right? That's what the Consulate's website says, but i could have sworn I heard someone say it was a single-entry visa, so if I went back to the US during the 6 months the Visa was no longer valid. I've got to be in America in April to be the maid of honor in another wedding, and it would stink to high heaven if I couldn't get back into England after that.

I'd ask the consular's office to make sure, but I don't see why it wouldn't be a multiple entry visa.  Let us know what you find out!

Well the way I understand it, in that situation you wouldn't need a finacee visa.  You would just apply for a spousal visa after you are married.  But you might have the same problems for David going over there that you had coming over here.  Not sure how to make that easier for you.

I don't think it would make any difference for David since he's not intending to settle in the US.  My husband came to the US to marry me and bring me back.  He just went through like usual.  Of course, he didn't mention the marriage thing, which was probably best otherwise they would've questioned him.  But really, shouldn't make a difference for David.  Telling Immigration he was coming to the country to get married would only bring on difficulties that were not necessary since he isn't planning on staying.

I'm going to call the Consulate directly tonight to ask them about this... I'll let y'all know what they say. To be fair, we haven't decided which country we want to get married in once we are really engaged, we just want to get all the info we can about having it either way. Stay tuned...

What did you find out Sarah?  

I know you had a terrible time coming in.  But the problem is, you're going to pay $416 for a Fiancee Visa which basically says you are entering the UK to get married IN THE UK - then you're going to return to the US and get married there, then have to pay ANOTHER $416 (or whatever the exchange amount is by then) for a Spouse Visa to actually return and settle in the UK.

Sorry, I'm not convinced on either counts of this until I see it in writing.  I don't see how a fiancee visa is only granted with the contingency that you marry in the UK.  It's my understanding it's granted with the contingency you plan on SETTLING in the UK.  Is that what the website says?  Where does it say it?  Sorry, Miss Skeptical here!

And I also don't see how the Chicago consular's office can ream her another $400 or so for a spousal visa if she already has the fiancee visa unless the fiancee visa has expired.  If she were here in the UK applying for the spousal, then she wouldn't be required to pay another fee.  So why should she if she gets it in the US?  My question would be would the consular's office even do it, not if they'll charge the fee.  They issue visas as a service, but they're not an Immigration office, per se.  For all practical purposes, can't see why they wouldn't, but who knows, you know.  

Anyway, just asking all the tough questions today, I guess!

SIGH! Does anyone else, when dealing with ideas and thoughts of Immigration and visas and passports get masive headaches?  

Elle - you asked why I'd go back to Chicago to get my spousal Visa, that was only because if we got married in the US I'd just be right there anyway, and for some reason I was thinking that once we got married something magical happened and I couldn't re'enter England on my fiancee visa. Stupid I know... but my brains a bit full. I guess I would just do it in Croydon, wouldn't I...

Peedal - I know they might want to milk more $ out of me that way, but I'm 99% sure Immigration wouldn't let me back into England without a fiancee visa, and David & I don't want to get married in the next 2 months, so it would mean being apart again.

At the end of the day, David & I are planning on settling in the UK for a while after this potential wedding, even if it's not for a really long time. I was thinking they wouldn't care where the wedding actually took place either, it's just all about where I want to settle you know?

As far as the phone call... I called and couldn't get through (had limited amount of time to remain on hold) and couldn't call last night because I was unexpectedly whisked away out of town. So no answers until monday, I'm afraid.

But the more we think about it, the more we think of logistics and stuff, the moer we think it woul djust be easier to get married in the UK and fly my parents over here. I could come here on a fiancee visa and get married on it, get a spousal visa, and then have it over with, you know?

h.e.a.d.a.c.h.e.

and thanks everyone for the input... I will absolutely post when I get in touch with the office on Monday.

research research research
blah blah blah...


Good thing David is so wonderful...

SIGH! Does anyone else, when dealing with ideas and thoughts of Immigration and visas and passports get masive headaches?  

I probably did, but don't remember. :-/

Elle - you asked why I'd go back to Chicago to get my spousal Visa, that was only because if we got married in the US I'd just be right there anyway, and for some reason I was thinking that once we got married something magical happened and I couldn't re'enter England on my fiancee visa. Stupid I know... but my brains a bit full. I guess I would just do it in Croydon, wouldn't I...

It's a valid question, hon.  If it's convenient to do it in Chicago and they will, then go for it, I say.

At the end of the day, David & I are planning on settling in the UK for a while after this potential wedding, even if it's not for a really long time. I was thinking they wouldn't care where the wedding actually took place either, it's just all about where I want to settle you know?

I'm with your train of thought on this one, M.  If you produce a legal document that states you and David are married and you're intending to settle in the UK, I don't see why there would be a problem.  

As far as the phone call... I called and couldn't get through (had limited amount of time to remain on hold) and couldn't call last night because I was unexpectedly whisked away out of town. So no answers until monday, I'm afraid.

Bummer.  Do keep us posted.

But the more we think about it, the more we think of logistics and stuff, the moer we think it woul djust be easier to get married in the UK and fly my parents over here. I could come here on a fiancee visa and get married on it, get a spousal visa, and then have it over with, you know?

 

You could always do it the way my husband and I did and have the official ceremony in one place and then do another celebratory ceremony in the other.

Hang in there!

I finally got through to the Home Office, and here was our little Question and Answer session:

Question 1: I know we have to get married within 6 months of getting a fiancée visa, but does the ceremony have to be in England, or can we make a quick trip to America, get married, get my spouse visa in Chicago, then return to England?

Answer: You don’t need to apply for fiancée visa in that situation, you can get married in the US and apply for a spouse visa right away in the US. But there is nothing that says you can’t get a fiancée visa strictly for entry right into England as long as you plan on marrying and settling in the UK. So yes, you can marry anywhere you like, it’s just that’s not what the fiancée visa is designed for. But no problem.

Translation:  I can still come to England on fiancée visa, and go to the US to get married 6 months later. Ceremony doesn’t have to be in England, it just usually is. my situation is unique in that I wouldn’t be allowed to re-enter England on my passport for long-term again, so I’d need to fiancée visa just to be with David for those few months. So it makes it easier that way, but technically the visa isn’t needed unless you marry in England.

Question 2: Am I correct that this is the way we'd do it? Step One, apply for fiancee visa in Chicago, then go to England. Get married in England. Go to Croydon to get my Spouse Visa the day after (or soon). Is this right?

Answer: Yes.

Question 3: After I get my spouse visa, it last for a year. If his job moves us back to America before that year is up, and the spouse visa expires, how will I get back into England?

Answer: Your passport. You can move back to America with his job and still have access to England on your passport, so there is no need to wait a year for the ILR if you plan on settling in America since it will expire after 2 years anyway.

Translation: They may not like me coming into England on my passport now, but once I’m married to David Immigration will (in theory) have an easier time with me and let me in as much as I want. Given my nightmare in July, I think I forgot that once I'd marry David, they wouldn't have a reason to be suspicious of me anymore. I don’t need to have a visa at all, unless I plan on living here for a long, long time. Which I don’t.

Question 4: Do I need to make sure his job keeps us in England for at least a year after our marriage, so that I can get the ILR and be able to enter/leave as I like from then on? Especially if his job moves him BACK to England?

Answer: No, it doesn’t make a difference. If you move to America after getting Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), you have up to 2 years to return to England for settlement. If you move to America permanently, your ILR will expire after two years. So if you plan on settling long-term in America, there is no need to get your ILR. If you plan on living here past the expiration of your spousal visa, then get the ILR, but realize it will expire 2 years after you settle in America. In order to return to England you’d just go on your passport. If you ever plan on returning to England to settle, you’d just apply for a Spouse visa again in America, and start the process over. You can apply for a Spouse Visa more than once if it expires.

Soooooo.......

Seems like the easiest thing would be as follows:
1. Get a fiancee visa while I'm in Chicago over the holidays
2. Come to England and get married within the 6 months
3. Get a spouse visa
4. Go to America for a huge party/celebration/blessing
5. Wait a year - if I'm still living in England and it looks like I will be for a while longer, apply for ILR. If I'm back in America, then oh well. I use my passport to return to England for visits, and if we ever move back to the Uk permanently I go to Chicago, get another Spouse Visa, and start it all over.

My.brain.hurts...

But at least this is all starting to make sense to me... now all I need is the ring.  

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{M}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}  go have yourself a bit cafe mocha, girlie!  It all sounds good to me and you now can chart the path you need to go!

Sounds like a plan, Sara - except that 3. should read "FLR," not "spouse visa."  It's complicated enough!  The visa is for entry into the country - if you're already here...