[MERGED]Moving for the NHS; Opinions and Advise(Sicko Movie)

There are a lot of horror stories out there - but my experience with the US healthcare system has always been great. Insurance is expensive, yes, but when it's a benefit as part of your job it's hassle-free and it's taken right out of your wages so you never see/feel it. I've never had a problem with an insurance company denying or arguing about a claim, even for expensive procedures and surgeries. Of course - things are different for the poor, and I have never been in that situation. All I can say is that my personal experience has been excellent both with the insurance companies and the quality of the care I've received. I have no complaints.

My experience with the NHS, on the other hand, has been dreadful. The standard of care is just not good. The doctors have no incentive to be good. In the US, for a doctor to have a successful practice they rely on word of mouth - on happy patients who will recommend them to others. They have to build their reputations. In the UK every doctor just gets a list of patients. One leaves? Another one is put on. The result is that there is no incentive to excel at their job and no incentive to care. One time I was at my wits' end - I had been ill for over 2 months with a horrible chesty cough, a fever, aches, chills, you name it - I could barely function - and two different NHS doctors told me to drink tea (no, I'm not kidding!), partake of some Lemsip if I ached, and "take it easy."  I wanted to jump across the desks they sat behind (they never bothered to examine me - they just sat behind a big desk and looked at me) and punch them in the face. In the US, by that point I would have had a chest x-ray, blood tests, cultures, and so forth. There would have been an investigation of the problem, a diagnosis, and treatment. Not on the NHS. I dread that aspect of living in the UK very much. I truly hope that it has improved since I was last there.

There are a lot of horror stories out there - but my experience with the US healthcare system has always been great. Insurance is expensive, yes, but when it's a benefit as part of your job it's hassle-free and it's taken right out of your wages so you never see/feel it. I've never had a problem with an insurance company denying or arguing about a claim, even for expensive procedures and surgeries. Of course - things are different for the poor, and I have never been in that situation. All I can say is that my personal experience has been excellent both with the insurance companies and the quality of the care I've received. I have no complaints.

I wasn't "poor" but still had no insurance in the US.  If I had taken it as a "benefit" with the jobs I had, I wouldn't have had enough money left over to feed me and my kids.  So there really wasn't much of a choice for me.  But as I was working, I wasn't poor enough to qualify for any help from the government.

But since moving to the UK, I haven't had to worry once about my or my sons' health.  They've had regular eye checkups on the NHS and glasses when/as needed.  They've had dental care.  When they feel ill, I can take them to the GP without worrying which bill won't get paid.  These are all things concerning their basic welfare that I couldn't provide in the US, even working 40+ hours per week.

And maybe we're lucky, but all the care we've had in the past almost 5 years has been wonderful.  The only thing I have to "complain" about is the fact that I've been waiting a year for my "referral" for getting my tubes tied.  But no worries, as I can just go back to my GP and get back on Depo - without worrying about where the money will come from (either for the shot, or to feed another, unplanned!, baby!).

Everyone's experiences are different, but the one indisputable fact is that your experiences with health care in the US are only going to be good if you had the money to pay for them.

I wasn't "poor" but still had no insurance in the US.  If I had taken it as a "benefit" with the jobs I had, I wouldn't have had enough money left over to feed me and my kids.

At my company (a large corporation) the amount you pay toward your health insurance is based on your salary - so if you make more money, you pay more for the same health insurance coverage as someone who makes less money to offset their costs. When this scheme was explained to us in a meeting, the HR guy asked who in the room felt that this was fair, and virtually everone raised their hand. Every company deals with it in a different way, but I thought this was a good approach.

Expat is correct about how it is now much more difficult to declare bankruptcy in the US ( a little pressie our dear President gave the US banking & credit card industry back in 2005).  It's a bit complex, but you can get the jist of it here:

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Major_US_bankruptcy_reform_bill_signed_into_law

I find the US health care system appalling - yes, it's the best medical care that money can buy.

And how about all the elderly who end up spending an extortionate proportion of their limited incomes on medicine?!?!!  When she was living on her own, my mom was one of these --  her SS benefit was around $700 per month, and her monthly medicine came to between £300-400 per month.

I don't understand how the government has sat around this long without making some sort of adjustment to the way our healthcare system is run.  And gotten better control of the insurance agencies.  I agree that prescriptions are outrageous!  My daughter is allergic to penicillin and is very prone to strep throat and ear infections.  Before she had tubes in her ears, we were there every month.  She would get better while on the medicine and then have another one.  I did everything they suggested to try and make them stop, but the fact is, some people are more prone to it than others.  Every visit cost us from co-payment to her medicines and if they did a strep test that cost extra.  I'm glad we do have insurance, but even with it, for two young parents with ok jobs, but not great, it was a fight to stay afloat!  Even her surgery to put the tubes in (which literally lasted 5 minutes) cost us over $1500 between the anesthesia, doctor and surgery center.  That was with insurance.  So it is getting out of hand, and I'm glad we are moving!!

There are a lot of horror stories out there - but my experience with the US healthcare system has always been great. Insurance is expensive, yes, but when it's a benefit as part of your job it's hassle-free and it's taken right out of your wages so you never see/feel it. I've never had a problem with an insurance company denying or arguing about a claim, even for expensive procedures and surgeries. Of course - things are different for the poor, and I have never been in that situation. All I can say is that my personal experience has been excellent both with the insurance companies and the quality of the care I've received. I have no complaints.

My experience with the NHS, on the other hand, has been dreadful. The standard of care is just not good. The doctors have no incentive to be good. In the US, for a doctor to have a successful practice they rely on word of mouth - on happy patients who will recommend them to others. They have to build their reputations. In the UK every doctor just gets a list of patients. One leaves? Another one is put on. The result is that there is no incentive to excel at their job and no incentive to care. One time I was at my wits' end - I had been ill for over 2 months with a horrible chesty cough, a fever, aches, chills, you name it - I could barely function - and two different NHS doctors told me to drink tea (no, I'm not kidding!), partake of some Lemsip if I ached, and "take it easy."  I wanted to jump across the desks they sat behind (they never bothered to examine me - they just sat behind a big desk and looked at me) and punch them in the face. In the US, by that point I would have had a chest x-ray, blood tests, cultures, and so forth. There would have been an investigation of the problem, a diagnosis, and treatment. Not on the NHS. I dread that aspect of living in the UK very much. I truly hope that it has improved since I was last there.

When I was unemployed, I was able to get CHIP for my daughter, but I qualified for nothing.  The first time I tried to get care for myself at a free, charity-run clinic, they refused to give me the medicine I needed and wrote me an order for an $80 X-ray.  A few days later, I received a letter from them, stating that I wasn't welcome back unless I got a Medicaid refusal letter. 

I was working temp at the time, and wouldn't have qualified for Medicaid.  However, getting the letter would have been a day off work without pay.  I had to make the choice between getting a Medicaid refusal letter, or feeding my child.  I threw away the X-ray order and didn't bother with the refusal letter.  Feeding my child was more necessary and important.

This was an evening (after work) clinic that was supposedly set up for the uninsured and under-insured.   

Hi! My name is Tabby and I currently live in Florida with my 2 sons and hubby. We are all natural born Americans who have become quite upset with the financial and healthcare situation here in the US. After watching Micheal Moore's 'Sicko' movie I began to check up on the healthcare programs and family benefits in the UK, this is how I was able to find this group. I wanted to ask those of you currently living in the UK what you felt about the way he portrayed the healthcare system and family benefits (like the maternity leave)? Is it accurate? Did he not cover the full spectrum of what it is really like?

We are not looking to move anytime in the near future but, we are thinking about it as an option. Our current situation is not "ideal" I guess you would say, I am a stay at home Mom and my hubby has no degree and works as a student loan consolidation specialist. With the current situation what do you think the odds would be of us being able to "make it" there in the UK as far as work and being able to afford the basics?

Please be as honest as possible, thinking about this is keeping me up at night and I would love to have a full night sleep!! 

Hi Tabby,

Unfortunately the movie has not been released in the UK as of yet (and it currently has no scheduled release date), so not that many people on this site will have seen it - although perhaps there are a few members who are currently in the US and have also lived in the UK who can help in terms of comparing the NHS to what was portrayed in the film.

However, I have heard a little about the film and it is my understanding that the NHS is painted as just about perfect in the movie and although it does have its benefits, it also has its drawbacks. While it does provide 'free' healthcare ('free' as in we pay for it via our taxes) - a doctor's visit or hospital stay require no payment when you are there and prescriptions are about $14 per script - this free healthcare is not always up to standard. There are long waiting lists for operations, for example, an elderly person needing a hip replacement can be on a waiting list for several months, possibly years, before they are treated, and unfortunately there is a problem in hospitals with infections such as MRSA, which are very dangerous to vulnerable patients. Here is a link to the NHS page on Wikipedia - it discusses the way the NHS works and also some of its criticisms - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS. Also, you may wish to take a look at the discussions in the Healthcare and Insurance section in this forum - as they highlight some of the good and bad aspects of UK healthcare.

I'm not sure what the movie said about maternity leave, but I believe the entitlement here is pretty good. You are entitled to 6 months paid leave (at 90% pay, I believe) and if you have been at your job for 6 months or more by the time you are 14 weeks pregnant, you can also take another 6 month's leave (usually unpaid). Men can now take 2 weeks paid paternity leave, as well as 13 weeks unpaid leave. Apparently, from 2009, men will be entitled to the same 6 months paid leave as women.

In terms of the odds of you being able move to the UK - I'm afraid it doesn't look good. It is not easy to move here and basically the only ways to get a visa are if you are a dual US-UK citizen, if you wish to study at university here, or if you have a very highly-skilled job that is in demand in the UK.

It sounds as though you would be looking at trying to get a work visa (as the other 2 options probably won't apply to you), but this is the most difficult way to get into the country. Basically, you have to be offered a job with a UK company whilst still in the US, then that company has to prove to the UK government that nobody in the entire EU (European Community) is qualified and capable of doing the job and that you were the only person will the ability to do the job. There are 500 million people living in the EU, so unless you are a specialist (e.g. an academic in an obscure field) or you work for a big multi-national corporation that may wish to transfer you to their UK offices, the chances are pretty slim.

I watched the film and found it interesting. But, Michael Moore is definitely not known for presenting the whole picture. As stated above, he failed to mention anything negative about the NHS. It too has its problems. I've been here for two years and visit the doctor about 6 times a year and haven't had many issues myself so far. The only issue I have is when I see a nurse practitioner instead of a doctor they don't take much time with me and seemed very rushed to get me back out the door as if they're overbooked. I've never spent more than 5 minutes with a nurse practitioner here.

I prefer the care I used to receive at Kaiser but I am definitely for the type of system set up here where no one goes without healthcare.

The fact the UK has the NHS already puts it miles ahead of the US. But as others have said, the system is far from perfect and other countries are known for having better national health care (I think Germany is the one usually cited).

ksand24 is right, your options for just up and moving here aren't good at all. And frankly, moving to take advantage of a struggling NHS isn't going to endear you to many people here.

However, you do note that neither you nor your husband have a degree. It is possible (as you husband may already know) to use American student loans to pay for tuition overseas. Perhaps one of you could consider doing a degree over here. It's not by any means an ideal option (the tuition is very high) but I believe if one of you has a student visa, the other one can come over as well. And I *think* you can work but I'm not sure.

Anyway, my point is, you *could* come here but coming over to do a degree would have to be something you really wanted. Just doing it to get some decent health care would be foolish (and that's an understatement).

I would suggest that you research the student option if it interests you at all. If not, I'd suggest you join the many Americans who are sick to death of the system in the US and try to get this next crop of Presidential hopefuls to pull their fingers out and do something about it.

Hope this helps!

Haven't see the film yet. Does he talk about other countries that have similar health systems or just the UK? why not look at moving to Scandanvia or New Zealand?

BTW about  the maternity pay, I know it;s changed recently, but I'm pretty sure it is still only the first 6 weeks that you get 90% of your pay. After that it's a flat rate. When I got it, it was just over £100 p/w, better than the US perhaps but still not enough to support a family.

The fact the UK has the NHS already puts it miles ahead of the US.

Hear hear!  It isn't perfect, but it's better than no national health care system like in the US.

My experiences with the NHS thus far have been positive on the whole.  I'm not crazy about my particular doctor, but then I encountered crappy doctors in the US before as well - so no real difference there.

Incidentally, they have MRSA in the US as well.  Many people carry this bacteria already on their person anyway, but it doesn't make them sick -- and it can be dangerous to a vulnerable patient on either side of the Atlantic.  But the US media (for once--lol!!) doesn't seem to have a feeding frenzy over MRSA the way that the UK media does.

FWIW, I think that Florida (unless it was a county-by-county thing) has some sort of health care service for very low income people, but I forget what it was called.  It seems that it was something more than just Medicaid, however.  Several years ago, I took an impoverished, uninsured sick friend of mine to sign up for it.  We got to the office that administered the program around 7:30 am, only to find that the queue for signing up had started at 6 am.  (They didn't take appointments - you just had to show up.)  End result, I sat in the waiting room with my sick friend all day long, from when the place opened at 8 am until they finally saw him at 4:30 pm in the afternoon.  We didn't dare leave for him to rest or to get any lunch, for fear of losing his place in the queue.  It was far less than ideal (as you can see), but it allowed him to see a doctor & get free or reduced-cost prescriptions -- only thing is that you had to go back & wait, either every month or every other month, to have your eligibility for the program redetermined.

That was in Tampa.  Whatever this program was called - it didn't seem to be well publicised or well known.  We only found out about it through word of mouth -- I think from trying to get into a doctor or clinic elsewhere.  The other thing we learned is that sometimes if you make a plea to a doctor, some prescription companies will offer hardship concessions -- so you're getting free or no cost prescriptions as a sort of write off (I guess?) from the pharmaceutical company.  Sort of like a long-term supply of free samples, you could say.  There is paperwork involved & it's not easy to qualify -- you have to really have no money.

There are other states that have similar sort of stop-gap health programs for the extremely poor, but it's all quite hit or miss.  Certainly nothing very well coordinated!  And often it seems that you have to be begging (literally) in the right place at the right time to the right doctor/clinic/social service agency/etc even to find out about programs that you might stand a slim chance of qualifying for.  For people who have never been that poor, or trying to help someone who is -- you have no idea what it's like to be sick, needing care, and having to beg for treatment.  Utterly dehumanizing!  Not to mention inexcusable that one of the richest countries in the world permits this to happen to some of its most vulnerable citizens.   (And no, I've not seen Sicko -- I am only speaking from personal observations & experiences.)

Haven't see the film yet. Does he talk about other countries that have similar health systems or just the UK? why not look at moving to Scandanvia or New Zealand?

BTW about  the maternity pay, I know it;s changed recently, but I'm pretty sure it is still only the first 6 weeks that you get 90% of your pay. After that it's a flat rate. When I got it, it was just over £100 p/w, better than the US perhaps but still not enough to support a family.

Sorry, I misread the article I was reading about the recent changes to maternity pay. You do get 90% of your salary for the first 6 weeks and then for the remaining 20 weeks you get either £100 per week or 90% of your salary - whichever is the lesser amount.

I watched the film and found it interesting. But, Michael Moore is definitely not known for presenting the whole picture. As stated above, he failed to mention anything negative about the NHS.

I haven't seen the film yet but did see Michael Moore interviewed on CNN and he said he did only show the good bits of the NHS in England, France and Germany. He said is objective was to point out the good things in an attempt for American's to see "how things could be". He knows there is no quick fix for the US system but wants people to start standing up to politicians and insurance companies.

I've seen 'Sicko' and it does indeed paint the NHS in a very rosy light, which others have talked about.  I really like the idea of basic national health care for everyone and I'm glad we have it here, but as with all systems there are significant problems and it's really not a reason to move to the UK in and of itself...there are other countries who do a far better job of implementing universal health care than the UK.