[MERGED]Moving for the NHS; Opinions and Advise(Sicko Movie)

First, we didn't complain that we had to pay--I could have used my US insurance and been 100% reimbursed, we made the comment about the cost of "free medicine"

As far as want versus need, take a look at these headlines and articles from recent UK newspapers, then bring up the want v need:

• NHS clinic to help lesbians get pregnant
  Times Online, UK - Jul 14, 2007
  AN NHS fertility clinic is proposing to treat single women and lesbian couples who have no medical problems. The reproductive medicine unit at University ...
  
  NHS Scheme 'Puts Cancer Victims At Risk'--about the delay in referring those in need of breast care  http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1275042,00.html
  
  And we read every day about the cancer drugs that will not be prescribed to patients because of cost--even though they have been proven to be effective and improve quality and quantity of life

I don't bring these things up as an outsider looking in, but as a (former) medical care practitioner within the NHS.  Often, my hands were tied because of cost or policy, usually cost.  Perhaps my patients wanted treatment, not needed it.

Mr Debinator

I've never had a problem with an insurance company denying or arguing about a claim, even for expensive procedures and surgeries. Of course - things are different for the poor, and I have never been in that situation.

My parents (in the US) have health problems and yesterday told me that two of their claims have been denied by their health insurance (which they pay $400 every month); the one claim was denied because my mother's specialist for her gastroparesis is out of state even though a) the last specialist that she saw was even further away b) the specialist that is in the state told her they had no room for her. She now has to explain why she has to go out of state to have her pacemaker checked (after several years of it going unchecked) or else the referral will not be approved. My father was told that his last surgery to remove lesions (he had skin cancer this year) is not being covered because he has gone over the maximum of five lesions to be removed per year! The crazy thing is that even if the surgeries/procedures do get covered, they often have to pay a large amount because it is only covering a percentage of the cost.

. My father was told that his last surgery to remove lesions (he had skin cancer this year) is not being covered because he has gone over the maximum of five lesions to be removed per year! The crazy thing is that even if the surgeries/procedures do get covered, they often have to pay a large amount because it is only covering a percentage of the cost.

That is just nuts!  And frightening.  Sounds like making sure your health care is covered is turning more and more into a full time job. 

I'll be moving over to the US in a few months for my PhD and until a couple of days ago, I had assumed that if I was covered by health insurance (which is provided for me by my dept), then I wouldn't have to worry about medical costs other than maybe doctor's appointments and prescription charges. However, I am rapidly discovering that this is not necessarily the case.

For example, it seems that if I broke my leg (for example), I would have to pay a deductible and then 20% of the eligible cost before the insurance would even kick in! I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible withstand the pain long enough to fly internationally with a broken leg, lol - the return flight home for treatment and back to the US again would probably be cheaper than paying the hospital fees!!

I haven't seen Sicko yet.  I don't usually agree with how Michael Moore goes about doing things, but at least people are FINALLY talking about it.  I have been on all sides of the US healthcare system (bad insurance, no insurance, child on Medicare, and also have had excellent insurance) and I absolutely abhor the US system and will never move back.  2 recent experiences really solidified that decision for me.

My dad was diagnosed with esophageal cancer in Feb 2006.  He was working full-time and had insurance, but had to pay a percentage (I think 20%) of all treatments.  The bills piled up quickly and by May he was talking about having to sell his house.  He decided he wanted on last summer in the house and would sell in the fall.  He died that September.  It pisses me off to no end that the last part of his life was filled with worry about money.  I think its disgusting that people still live and die in the richest country in the world without dignity. 

My best friend is currently at his wits end with US healthcare.  He had been treated for depression a few years ago, and had to quit college and focus on getting himself better, and moved back in with his parents.  He got better, and was working at getting back on his feet.  He enrolled back in school, and got a job.   He went to the local clinic for STD tests, something he did every year.  He was diagnosed with HIV.  It is now impossible for him to get any type of private insurance so he has to rely on the state.  He has an aggressive strain of the virus and within 6 months of diagnosis he had to go on ARV's.  The problem is, in order for the state to pay for his medication and care he has to have an income below a certain amount.  (IIRC it's around $15,000/year).  If he makes any more than that he is responsible for all the costs of his care, which is insanely expensive.  So basically, if he wants to live longer, he has to accept a poor quality of life.  No aspirations of a nice job and security for him.  He has sat down with his family and looked at cost of rent and all that, and with the income restrictions he has it is unlikely he'll even be able to move out on his own again.  He's now again being treated for depression.  The state allows payment for only 1 anti-depressant, which he isn't responding to.  His doctor wrote a letter to try to get approval for a different medication and it was denied.  He is so depressed about the whole situation that he is actually comtemplaing going off his ARV's.  His mind set right now is that if he can't go out and live a completely normal life and work for things that he wants (good job, maybe buy a house someday)  than what's the point of living.  It breaks my heart, and I'm sure there are millions of people in similar positions in the US.

I know that the NHS isn't perfect, but I do think a lot of people take it for granted. Healthcare is not something only the wealthy should be entitled to.

First, we didn't complain that we had to pay--I could have used my US insurance and been 100% reimbursed, we made the comment about the cost of "free medicine"

As far as want versus need, take a look at these headlines and articles from recent UK newspapers, then bring up the want v need:

• NHS clinic to help lesbians get pregnant
  Times Online, UK - Jul 14, 2007
  AN NHS fertility clinic is proposing to treat single women and lesbian couples who have no medical problems. The reproductive medicine unit at University ...
  
  NHS Scheme 'Puts Cancer Victims At Risk'--about the delay in referring those in need of breast care  http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-1275042,00.html
  
  And we read every day about the cancer drugs that will not be prescribed to patients because of cost--even though they have been proven to be effective and improve quality and quantity of life

I don't bring these things up as an outsider looking in, but as a (former) medical care practitioner within the NHS.  Often, my hands were tied because of cost or policy, usually cost.  Perhaps my patients wanted treatment, not needed it.

Mr Debinator

I suppose it depends what you consider to be a need ... I think my son NEEDS a chicken pox vaccination but the NHS disagrees.  Apparently this vaccination is now provided free to children in the USA but to get it done here is would cost us around £90 plus the cost of travel to a bigger city to see a private physician because no doctors here give it.

Very interesting discussion. I haven't seen the movie, but my own personal feelings since living in the UK for nearly 2 years have been that:

1. I was extremely lucky in the US to have excellent healthcare provided by by (federal) employer, which allowed me a huge range of choice in doctors and specialists, where i was able to self-refer to specialists of my choice. I was able to pay for my contact lenses out of a health savings plan, and have a full physical every year which included cholesterol testing, a gyno exam, blood pressure, etc. In the UK I get 10 mins with the doctor and she thinks I'm a hypochondriac when I ask her to at least check my pulse.

2. In the US I received far better care, at a cheaper costs than what it costs me here in the UK

3. The NHS is not free. You are taxed at a high rate for what is basically a gigantic HMO. I think most people in the US don't understand this.

I fully agree that the insurance system in the US is awful and that should be fixed. But I have also heard enough horror stories from my friends here to know that the medical care in the US is far better. My father, who has had a kidney transplant (in the US) would probably have been allowed to die on the NHS. Just my 2 cents.

We are heading back to the USA. I'll have great insurance working as a staff nurse at magnet hospital and a good salary.  In the UK nurses are not even coming close to getting paid for the all the hours we work.

 I would rather be bankrupt than maimed for life or dead.  I have worked as a staff nurse for the NHS for years and I have seen way too many people suffer and die unnecessarily due to lack of staff and funds.  They are letting another 600 staff go from Scarborough's nhs trust.

They have found that we have legionairre's disease in the plumbing on one of the wards.  It is transmitted by inhaling water droplets.  They don't have the money to fix the problem nor do they have any other place/beds to send the patients out to and they are still taking admissions to that ward.  Someone at work said that it's on the kids ward as well.  We already have one member of staff possibly ill with it.  She has had "pnuemonia" for weeks and is unable to shake it.  It has a pretty high fatality rate if contracted by vulnerable people (like our patients).  10 -30 percent fatality for others.

We were just told to carry on working, shut up and make sure that we don't spalsh any water near our faces while we are washing our hands.  And they were still admitting new patients to that ward the night that they found out it was there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legionellosis

We have had this happen before on that ward with one fatality.  I hope that by the time I am due back at work it is being treated.  I also hope I don't get busted for posting about it.

The NHS is unsustainable. It has been used and abused for so long.  They are letting the NHS die by degrees.  It is getting so bad that anyone  smart will buy healthcare insurance as a security blanket. So don't let healthcare be the main decider as to where you are going to live.

That is really scary   

I am not a normal fan of Michael Moore, but I applaud him for making this film and waking up America.Unfortunately, it seems it is limited in where it is shown, is this on purpose? We had to cross two counties in FL to find where the film was playing. Why is it not more widely show?

I too would like to move, but it did not take me long to realize why would other countries want to open their borders to the ailing US. We need to fix our problem rather than run away from it. Is that not what Moore want us to do, not jump ship? We have an election coming up, why don't we start demanding our congress and president start working for us and not the AMA, Drug companies, and Insurance industry, not to metion Tobacco and Firearms?

 Just to add my two pence, i was recently in hospital for an emergency operation, and i couldnt praise the nhs  highly enough , the nurses were effecient but friendly, and the doctors were professional, good service all round, i know the health service isnt brilliant but most of the staff do try their best. Cut out the middle management/beaurocracy and the NHS will be will be back to a decent service for everyone.

That is really scary   

Yes, beyond scary! 

The NHS was a remarkable thing back in its day but unfortunately its still highly regarded for no real reason. I can't tell you how many times I have heard about a Trust either laying off staff or closing.

I actually have a phobia about the NHS....and I am not being funny. It scares the heck out of me. It seems its very hit or miss depending on where you live.....that is the scary part of it (post code lottery, drug and even health check refusal depending on age, long waiting lists, short staffed, hygiene, etc).


Believe me, I want to see the good. 

I hear you Jules, I think we all want to see the good!  I guess it's like anything in life, it has it's good and bad.  Hopefully, most of us see the good!   

(I pay for AXA private heathcare here, I didn't have a good experience with the NHS, but that's not to say everyone else has the same experience)

I had a bankrupcy due to medical debt in the US - back when you could actually do this.

And that's only because I didn't have any assets at all to my name and was working temp.

Believe you me, it was the WORST time of my life and I didn't even have kids.  I can only imagine how I'd have gone out of my wits had I had teh kids, too.

It's not fun being uninsured in the US.

To be honest, I think I'd prefer having NHS coverage + good private insurance in the UK versus just having good medical insurance in the US.  Because if I lost that good insurance in the US for whatever reason, I'd be screwed if something happened, whereas if I lost private insurance coverage in the UK, I would be okay relying on the NHS in case of a serious accident or if I needed routine care.  Yes, I'd be paying more in taxes/insurance costs to be doubly insured in the UK as it were, but the peace of mind would be more than worth it, in my opinion.