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Topic: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(  (Read 4665 times)

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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2008, 02:22:52 PM »
Thanks.  I know that was probably a stupid question but better to be safe than sorry.

Belfast and Northern Ireland confuse a lot of people...  ::)  It isn't technically part of the United Kingdom (that is England, Scotland and Wales) but usually saying UK includes Northern Ireland and from a Immigration and National Government perspective it is part of the official title for the country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  Confusing but flying into Belfast and going through UK Borders there is exactly what you need to validate your entry visa.   :)

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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2008, 02:51:19 PM »
Moonfaery, have you also checked out Vayama.com? Their flights seem to be inexpensive compared to sites like priceline and expedia, etc.
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2008, 03:04:32 PM »
Belfast and Northern Ireland confuse a lot of people... 
Including immigration officers! ::) ::)

So don't feel bad, SMS. :)


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2008, 03:41:57 PM »
Belfast and Northern Ireland confuse a lot of people...  ::)  It isn't technically part of the United Kingdom (that is England, Scotland and Wales)

But Wikipedia defines United Kingdom as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Great Britain being England, Scotland and Wales.  The CIA World Fact Book just uses United Kingdom but their map shows No. Ireland as well as part of it. The Library of Congress uses Great Britain (!) "This heading is used for works on the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which comprises England, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, as well as works on the island of Great Britain"  Is it any wonder there is confusion!
I wonder what the Life in UK test people use as their authority?
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2008, 03:48:26 PM »
Yeah, as far as I'm aware, Northern Ireland is part of the UK.  The United Kingdom of Great Britain AND NI.  The two constitute that United Kingdom, whereas Great Britain comprises England, Scotland, and Wales. 


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2008, 04:07:16 PM »
Thanks guys. Will be checking out these flights. Air India seems like the cheapest... But I don't wanna fly with them. lol. will be checking out vayama.
Garry, I won't be booking any flights till I get my visa. So, let me know how the meeting goes! thanks!


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 04:31:29 PM »
Yeah, as far as I'm aware, Northern Ireland is part of the UK.  The United Kingdom of Great Britain AND NI.  The two constitute that United Kingdom, whereas Great Britain comprises England, Scotland, and Wales. 

It's confusing because the same word is used to mean different things depending on context.  This is due partly to linguistic laziness and partly to the complicated history of the British Isles (its self a contentious term.)

The country is called "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" and Northern Ireland is definitely a part of it.  The problem is that the full name is a bit of a mouthful to say, a problem shared by the USA but for some reason UKoGBaNI never caught on.  So we need a short version - the current accepted shortening is "The United Kingdom" or UK for short - easy.

Now the problems start, in ye olde days it was quite common to use "Great Britain" as a short version of UKoGBaNI.  In fact the "official" internet identifier for the UK is .gb.  The problem with this is that Great Britain is also a geographic term, it's the name of a big island of the coast of Europe.  England, Scotland and Wales are physically on Great Britain and NI isn't (the location of NI also has room for linguistic confusion, I'll come to that later.)  So if someone talks about Great Britain what do they mean, UKoGBaNI or the big island?  Very difficult to tell from context as there is so much overlap, 90-odd% of UKoGBaNI is on the Island of Great Britain so even if people say the wrong thing most of the time they will be correct by default.

Other potentially confusing terms:

Ireland.  The smaller of the British Isles is called Ireland, this is a geographic term.  There are two countries on the island, the province of NI (which is part of UKoGBaNI) and the country most of us know as "The Republic of Ireland."  This isn't its name though, it the official description, the countries name as defined in its constitution is "Ireland."  More room for confusion, NI is part of Ireland (the island) but not part of Ireland (the country.)

Britain.  This has no independent meaning.  It can either be a short form of UKoGBaNI or Great Britain, no way of telling easily from context.

British.  Probably the easiest term here, the accepted word to describe a citizen of the UKoGBaNI.  Can be contentious in NI.

Irish.  Back to confusion.  Citizens of the country (the Republic of) Ireland are Irish citizens.  Irish is also an identifier that can applied to anyone from the island of Ireland, this included people from NI, who are British.  To complicate things the RoI extends Irish citizenship to anyone born on the island of Ireland, which of course included NI.  So most people in NI are British, Irish (as in come from the island) and Irish (as in citizen of RoI.)  Only a lot of people in NI, depending on their political bent, will reject one or more of those identifiers.


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2008, 04:40:12 PM »
Quote
To complicate things the RoI extends Irish citizenship to anyone born on the island of Ireland, which of course included NI.  So most people in NI are British, Irish (as in come from the island) and Irish (as in citizen of RoI.)  Only a lot of people in NI, depending on their political bent, will reject one or more of those identifiers.

That is so interesting!  I had no idea that a person born in Northern Ireland was also a citizen of (The Republic of) Ireland. 
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2008, 04:48:28 PM »
That is so interesting!  I had no idea that a person born in Northern Ireland was also a citizen of (The Republic of) Ireland. 

Yep!  The ROI government changed the wording a bit, I think after the Good Friday agreement, to where one born in NI can choose to acquire Irish citizenship, instead of it being automatic, or something to that effect.  Also, spouses of Irish citizens living in Northern Ireland can apply for Irish citizenship after 3 years of marriage/residence anywhere on the island.

Excellent post PR!  It took me much longer than it should have to get all the various terminology straight when I first came over.

Quote
To complicate things the RoI extends Irish citizenship to anyone born on the island of Ireland, which of course included NI.

They do like to keep things complicated.  I filled out my daughter's Irish passport application wrong the first time because of this.  My DH is from ROI, but we live in NI where DD was born, so when I filled it out I checked that she was born abroad (in the UK) to an Irish parent.  Oops!
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2008, 04:52:19 PM »
That is so interesting!  I had no idea that a person born in Northern Ireland was also a citizen of (The Republic of) Ireland. 

Yep.  Husband and I considered him getting his Irish passport and going the visa route that way for me.

I'm aware of all the semantics involved with the country/geographical titles rooted in political/cultural history but all that on the day-to-day basis is more about the individual (not to say it's not important and hasn't had/doesn't have significant consequences!) than official.  I still believe it's technically the UK = England, Scotland, Wales, and NI; GB = England, Scotland, Wales  ;D

If it says something different in the Life in the UK test prep books, then I will answer that way only for the purpose of the test  :P
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 04:54:01 PM by SMS »


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2008, 05:10:11 PM »
Yep.  Husband and I considered him getting his Irish passport and going the visa route that way for me.

I'm aware of all the semantics involved with the country/geographical titles rooted in political/cultural history but all that on the day-to-day basis is more about the individual (not to say it's not important and hasn't had/doesn't have significant consequences!) than official.  I still believe it's technically the UK = England, Scotland, Wales, and NI; GB = England, Scotland, Wales  ;D

If it says something different in the Life in the UK test prep books, then I will answer that way only for the purpose of the test  :P

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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2008, 05:33:57 PM »

 To complicate things the RoI extends Irish citizenship to anyone born on the island of Ireland, which of course included NI. 

Someone once explained to me that, as far as the Irish (ROI) are concerned, the whole island is by rights theirs anyway.  Therefore, if you're born anywhere on the island, they consider you one of theirs.
They are also more liberal in the grandparent affiliation.  The UK will only let you claim nationality through grandparents if you currently live in a Commonwealth country, i.e. not the US.  But ROI will let US natives claim Irish citizenship through a grandparent, even if he or she was born in Ulster, provided it was before the split.
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2008, 05:36:58 PM »
Well, "United Kingdom of Great Britain" came into being 300 years ago when Scotland and England created the Articles of Union in 1707 (notably like much of history of the isle, Wales was sort of left out of the whole thing).

Ireland stayed as a separate country, ruled and governed by the UK.  Ireland was split into the Irish Free State and Northern Ireland in 1921, which is after Ireland refused to send representation to the UK Parliament and in negotiations, Michael Collins had to conceded the 6 counties in north east Ireland be left to the rule of the UK as a compromise.  The Irish Free State became the Republic of Ireland in 1949.

The term "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" was official in 1927.  So technically speaking as mentioned above, UK does not include NI, but is commonly accepted abbreviation for the whole lot.
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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2008, 05:55:18 PM »
I wish my hubby had Irish citizenship!

Why? :)


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Re: So, I should just not get a flight via dublin? :(
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2008, 05:57:14 PM »
But ROI will let US natives claim Irish citizenship through a grandparent, even if he or she was born in Ulster, provided it was before the split.
And Ulster is another confusing term. There were 9 counties in (the historical province) of Ulster. Six of those counties now form Northern Ireland, while three are in the ROI. But Ulster is commonly used as a descriptor for NI. :-\\\\


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