Heading to the UK for a month of externships = trouble??

Hey Everyone!!

I'm super excited that I have finally gotten my externships (two weeks at Liverpool Uni, two weeks at a feline specialty practice in Edinburgh) sorted out and approved - but now I'm thinking about immigration and wondering if there will be any issues.

I'll be going over with my husband, and coming back by myself (he can't stay for the full month). I'm staying with my cousin in Edinburgh, and we're likely renting a place in Liverpool. Do you all think I'll be ok? I won't have any letters from the externship places, do you think I need to get some proof of my attendance at the University of Florida college of vet med in order to show that we're definitely coming back? We will have return tickets of course.

I feel like since I have gotten married, we haven't had any issues at the border, but we've only ever gone over for two weeks at a time to visit his fam before - I think they will balk at the externship thing.

Are you sure this can be done on a visit visa?

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/howtoapply/infs/inf2visitors#9244241

Take a look at academic visitors.  I thought it might apply but with the work at the practice too I am not so sure.

You might want to look at this as well

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/workpermits/studentinternships/siguide0408.pdf


Vicky

Hmm, now I'm more confused. I looked at the academic visitor thing and I'm neither a "person on sabbatical leave from an overseas academic institution who wishes to make use of their leave to carry out research here (e.g to do research for a book)" nor an "academic (including doctors) taking part in formal exchange arrangements with United Kingdom counterparts; or an eminent senior doctor or dentist coming to take part in research, teaching or clinical practice."

Granted, things may have changed dramatically but when I came to the UK in 2003 to study abroad for 12 weeks I didn't need a special visa then.

And I certainly won't be getting paid, so I won't be "employed" by the places I am visiting.

Eeep.

Have you spoken about this with the university?  I think you may have a problem, as there is really no visa to cover unpaid work placements.

Actually (and I really hate doing this, and am so, so sorry), I have done a little more research into this, and found this little excerpt....

http://www.nafsa.org/knowledge_community_network.sec/education_abroad_1/education_abroad_2/ea1

UK Visa Options for Education Abroad Internships

The BUNAC Blue Card is no longer available for pure internship programs in the UK, so there is currently no visa option for pure internships that do not involve study. Internship participants are not eligible to enter as student visitors, but may be eligible to apply for a Tier 4 Student Visa/prior entry clearance if the program involves at least 50 percent of the time in study, limiting the internship/work placement to 50 percent or less of the program. While the UK government and the U.S. Department of State are in negotiations to create a visa option for internships under the Tier 5 Youth Mobility scheme, reports indicate that an agreement is unlikely to happen in time for summer programs.

Vicky

Have you spoken about this with the university?  I think you may have a problem, as there is really no visa to cover unpaid work placements.

Actually (and I really hate doing this, and am so, so sorry), I have done a little more research into this, and found this little excerpt....

http://www.nafsa.org/knowledge_community_network.sec/education_abroad_1/education_abroad_2/ea1

UK Visa Options for Education Abroad Internships

The BUNAC Blue Card is no longer available for pure internship programs in the UK, so there is currently no visa option for pure internships that do not involve study. Internship participants are not eligible to enter as student visitors, but may be eligible to apply for a Tier 4 Student Visa/prior entry clearance if the program involves at least 50 percent of the time in study, limiting the internship/work placement to 50 percent or less of the program. While the UK government and the U.S. Department of State are in negotiations to create a visa option for internships under the Tier 5 Youth Mobility scheme, reports indicate that an agreement is unlikely to happen in time for summer programs.

Vicky

That is...crazy unfortunate. I haven't asked the University about it, but I will. In any case, I will do my best to sort it out...but I'm not really willing to just cancel my externships...unfortunately this summer is really the *only* time I will ever have to do this. To be honest, I asked on this board not thinking there would be much of a problem - just trying to cover my bases to make sure I wouldn't get in trouble at the border. It seems incredibly ridiculous that there wouldn't be any options for me to even apply for! I don't want to do anything illegal...but this is just plain silly. I'm not getting paid, and I definitely WON'T be overstaying. Argh!!

Also, does it make a difference that what I'm doing is not really an internship, as such? It's an externship, or what in the UK is called "extra mural studies".

I am feeling pretty devastated about this right now...

I know, and I feel really awful having to tell you this.

There is no such thing as an 'externship' in UK terminology, but as far as I can tell it is an unpaid work placement.  And because of this, it won't work.  Unpaid work placements have been pretty much banned under minimum wage legislation, and in visa terms have been pretty much banned for all but students.

I am trying to see if you would qualify as a business visitor, but so far it doesn't look likely.  I *will* keep thinking.

Vicky

Unpaid work placements have been pretty much banned under minimum wage legislation, and in visa terms have been pretty much banned for all but students.

But I am a student...I'm just not going to be "studying" anything in the book sense, but I will be shadowing veterinarians/learning stuff in the practical sense...

:-(

PS Thank you so much for your help, even if the outlook is "not good" :-(

Yes, but not a student in the UK on a student visa

Now....you'll be 'shadowing', not 'working'?  There is a difference....

Vicky

Yes, but not a student in the UK on a student visa

Now....you'll be 'shadowing', not 'working'?  There is a difference....

Vicky

Oh, yes, as far as I know I'm basically just going to be shadowing vets. I think especially the Universities in the UK have pretty strict rules on who performs procedures on animals. The smaller clinic that is not affiliated with a University may let me do more (if they have owner permission), but technically...I am shadowing. If that changes things, that would be amazing...

I don't just mean performing procedures, I mean helping at all...strilising equipment, sweeping the floor, holding animals while procedures are being performed...anything that could be called work.

I am hoping this can be done as a visitor if you are just shadowing, but the rules have been tightened up a lot on visits recently, so don't get your hopes up yet.

Vicky