Returned EEA2 Application From UKBA

houstoncreed, when did you submit your EEA 2 application? I submitted my EEA 2 on August 11th and just got my COA last week. I also included a certified copy of my marriage license for foreign use (from NY) and I'm concerned about the turnaround time for the rejection, if they decide to reject my application since my EEA Family Permit also expires in mid-October. I included originals (+copies) of everything else so hopefully that won't be working against me.

If you got a CoA your application won't be turned around; houstoncreed's was turned around INSTEAD of being processed to the stage where a CoA is issued.

Also, your EEA family permit expiring means nothing; as long as your partner/spouse is exercising Treaty Rights, you are legally in the UK, regardless of what your passport says.  So relax!

uk4love-No worries. siviusx is  right. I never got a CoA. I mailed my application last Monday, so they got it right back to me. By the way, thanks for the news about the passport. That does calm me down some.

As for the wife working, she works 20 hours every week. This is 4 hours a day, Monday through Friday. She does get regular pay stubs.

I just finished 8 weeks of full time work with a university library, but that is done now. It was just summer project work, but it did provide me with pay stubs.

I think everything is now clear, except for the insurance issue. I guess we'll try going to the clinic where we are registered and see if they can give us any sort of paperwork.

Thanks again.

JohnL, I think you are right about the certified copy of my marriage license being okay. It is the same copy I got my original EEA family permit with. I will send a letter with my parcel next time in case they need it explained plainly. I imagine they might need some help. It at least appears to be the case.

uk4love-No worries. siviusx is  right. I never got a CoA. I mailed my application last Monday, so they got it right back to me. By the way, thanks for the news about the passport. That does calm me down some.

As for the wife working, she works 20 hours every week. This is 4 hours a day, Monday through Friday. She does get regular pay stubs.

I just finished 8 weeks of full time work with a university library, but that is done now. It was just summer project work, but it did provide me with pay stubs.

I think everything is now clear, except for the insurance issue. I guess we'll try going to the clinic where we are registered and see if they can give us any sort of paperwork.

Thanks again.

The reason John asked about your wife's employment is actually related to the insurance issue.  If she works that much, you can argue she is both a student AND a worker.  She can apply for EEA2 as a worker on those hours, and indicate that she's entitled to use the NHS on that basis, explaining that she's also a student.  It should clear the health insurance problem right up if you submit your NHS medical cards.

[Lucky her, also!  I wish I was allowed to work 20 hours per week but my stipend prohibits it.]

houstoncreed, when you applied last time, did you send any proof about your wife's employment? You certainly should be sending that proof, and also make a point, in a covering letter, about 3.1 in Chapter 1 of the UKBA EU instructions.

If she works that much, you can argue she is both a student AND a worker.

That is not quite how I would play it. I would apply on the basis of being a worker only, if only to emphasise that there is no question of insurance coming into play.

By the way siviusx, what are you studying?

Law!  [To be specific: EU, with a focus on freedom of movement.  Thus why I can't get over how ridiculous the UKBA interpretation of the Directive is on this point.  Students get the NHS, ergo have comprehensive sickness insurance; if you don't like it, change the law on the NHS.]

siviusx, that makes sense!

You might be rather interested to read this page from the HMRC Tax Credits Technical Manual.

Given that HMRC would not claim to have any knowledge of that particular area, that information must have been supplied by UKBA (or one of its predecessors).

But, and believe me, I have searched, there is nothing like that on the UKBA website.

*phew* thank you guys for clearing that up! 

John,

Thanks for that link; had seen it before, but not bookmarked.  I'm gearing up for a fight about this issue simply because of the unrealistic expectations it raises for EU students.  It's fine if the NHS does NOT count as comprehensive sickness insurance, but the NHS does not tell us this and lets us register just fine, meaning that we only become aware of these requirements when we need to deal with the UKBA.  For EEA nationals without spouses, this is only at the stage of naturalization (since PR is very rarely useful or needed for EEA nationals) and a huge disaster!

Those of us who have spouses from outside of the union require more urgent clarification/rectification on this issue, simply because the EEA2/4 cards are not (in practice) as "optional" as EEA1/3 are.  Basically: the stuff that academics tear their hair out at.  How did they conclude the NHS =/= comprehensive sickness insurance?  If it's not, nobody in the UK has any at all!

Okay, I'm getting ready to send the parcel again. I spoke to customer service at UKBA. They told me to include a letter of explanation in regards to any and all issues. She also said that my wife having a job and paying taxes allowed us to use NHS and not have to get private health insurance.  She even checked with her supervisor concerning this. Just FYI. I'll let you all know if it gets returned or not. Here's hoping for a pass. 

Does anyone know where this comprehensive medical cover issue came from?  I'm just trying to figure our why a non-EU national on a student visa (lasting longer than 6 months) can use the NHS, but an EU citizen student is supposed to have separate insurance.

If you read Article 7.1 of the EU Directive :-

Article 7
Right of residence for more than three months
1. All Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of longer than three months if they:

(a) are workers or self-employed persons in the host Member State; or

(b) have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence and have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State; or

(c) – are enrolled at a private or public establishment, accredited or financed by the host member State on the basis of its legislation or administrative practice, for the principal purpose of following a course of study, including vocational training; and
– have comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the host Member State and assure the relevant national authority, by means of a declaration or by such equivalent means as they may choose, that they have sufficient resources for themselves and their family members not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State during their period of residence; or

(d) are family members accompanying or joining a Union citizen who satisfies the conditions referred to in points (a), (b) or (c).

-: you will see that if someone is covered by (a) .... they are employed or self-employed ..... there is no mention of needing comprehensive sickness insurance cover. However if covered by either (b) ..... self-sufficient .... or (c) .... student ..... both of those categories mention the need for such insurance.

Which begs the question, is use of the NHS "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"? Most people think yes, but UKBA argues no. I think it is only a matter of time before this point gets tested, either in a UK Tribunal or Court, or indeed at the ECJ.

Which begs the question, is use of the NHS "comprehensive sickness insurance cover"? Most people think yes, but UKBA argues no. I think it is only a matter of time before this point gets tested, either in a UK Tribunal or Court, or indeed at the ECJ.

Interestingly, as mentioned by John,

Comprehensive sickness cover includes the National Heath Service (NHS) cover.

See also AG and others (EEA-jobseeker-self-sufficient person-proof) Germany [2007] UKAIT 00075.

Hi, I applied as a self-sufficient person for a residence card in May 2008. After a long wait, the Home Office asked for our passports, marriage certificate and proof of a fully comprehensive health insurance. They said this insurance must include emergency care, as general health care plans are not sufficient.

However, several insurers and health brokers told us that there is actually no such private health insurance available in the UK--all private medical insurance basically still assumes a degree of NHS coverage, for the GP, long-term illnesses, pre-existing conditions, and emergency care.

So basically it's impossible to give them what they want.

We did purchase a fully comprehensive health insurance with Aviva and sent this to the Home Office.

Can they reject our application because our current health insurance does not cover emergency care???

Thanks for your help,
VLong