Catholic school questions..

Does having had a bar-mitzvah disqualify a kid from admission to a Catholic school? It sure would be a shame, it's the best one in our area. Maybe we could all convert? My husband is not being helpful over this.

Your husband?? What happened to Madame Tremula??

Your husband?? What happened to Madame Tremula??

I transmuted myself into an ambitious mother for rhetorical purposes. I know they say "never apologise, never explain", but is it really necessary for me to say that I was being facetious?

Does having had a bar-mitzvah disqualify a kid from admission to a Catholic school? It sure would be a shame, it's the best one in our area. Maybe we could all convert? My husband is not being helpful over this.

Nope, we are Jewish and my son is currently at a CofE school, as long as you can quantify your faith (I know...) and maybe get a religous reference, you might be okay. Our school has a criteria for people of different faiths, but there were so many siblings this year none got in.

There you go. Consider King David School in Birmingham, a local authority supported Jewish school, where 47% of the pupils are Muslim...

The Muslim parents, however, are only too keen to talk in the playground about what might be seen by some in their communities as a controversial schooling decision.

"We actually bought a flat in the catchment area for the children to come here," says Nahid Shafiq, the mother of Zainah, four, and Hamza, nine, and wife of Mohammed, a taxi driver. "We were attracted by the high moral values of the school, and that's what we wanted our kids to have. None of us has any problem with it being a Jewish school. Why on earth should we? Our similarities as religions and cultures are far greater and more important than our differences. It's not even an issue.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/the-jewish-school-where-half-the-pupils-are-muslim-434481.html


The Muslim kids can wear a kufi. "Amazingly" (says the Independent), dozens of the Muslim children choose instead to wear the Jewish kipah. I find this so heartening and encouraging.

I thought I was being "clever" by making a joke about Jewish parents trying to get into a Catholic school, but the truth has caught me out.

I transmuted myself into an ambitious mother for rhetorical purposes. I know they say "never apologise, never explain", but is it really necessary for me to say that I was being facetious?

In a thread which doesn't merit it, I would expect you to. I actually believe what you're describing does take place, there is a Catholic  girls school down the road from me, and I often take the same bus as the pupils, many of them are muslim.
There was a sikh boy in my class at school and my mother is a muslim, so I knew a lot about Islam growing up and it was touch and go on what religion I'd be (my Dad won of course and decided Catholic but also they decided to educate me about Islam/other religions, and then when I was old enough I could decide for myself. I decided on atheism and upset them both)

The OP is not paying lip service to Catholicism to gain a good school place, she is a  Catholic, her husband is Catholic, she attended Catholic school, her husband attended Catholic school, she attended church regularly but since moving has not found a new community (but will when she is ready), she was willing to pay to send her child to a Catholic school, she wants her child to have all the Catholic sacraments.

She wants advice on ensuring that her child gets the best chance of going to a suitable Catholic school, which is fair enough given her position and the fact that she's moved to a new place and has yet to find a Catholic community to give her the advice she needs.

The OP is not paying lip service to Catholicism to gain a good school place, she is a  Catholic, her husband is Catholic, she attended Catholic school, her husband attended Catholic school, she attended church regularly but since moving has not found a new community (but will when she is ready), she was willing to pay to send her child to a Catholic school, she wants her child to have all the Catholic sacraments.

She wants advice on ensuring that her child gets the best chance of going to a suitable Catholic school, which is fair enough given her position and the fact that she's moved to a new place and has yet to find a Catholic community to give her the advice she needs.

yes, precisely.. thank you for this, cheesebiscuit.  I admit I truncated my description of the situation in the original post, mostly for clarity issues, as I dislike burying the actual question in a pile of waffle.  

If it actually matters to anyone: yes, we are both Catholic, were raised Catholic, have had all of our sacraments including our marriage in our Catholic church in Germany.  No, we haven't attended church since moving to the UK, but this is mostly due to just having fallen out of the habit.  (we have, however, attended a local Free Church on occasion, as it's much more easily accessible to us.  The only Catholic church is a bit of a ways away.)  We only know one or two Catholics in the area, and they aren't exactly close friends, so getting down to the basics on these sort of questions (ones which natives would assume everyone knew, eg not having to pay tuition for Catholic schools.)

I think it's a great big stretch to compare a born-and-raised Catholic to someone who was raised in an entirely different religion but is attempting to pretend to be Catholic for the sake of getting into a school.  In fact, there are a couple of good primary schools in our area (and our current neighborhood is a very popular catchment area) so we would be fine with him attending these.  If you read my first post, you will see the situation.  We can't afford to pay 7k/year to send him to school in the early years, which is why I was saying we would not be able to send him to Catholic school until later on.  Having him attend a Catholic primary school would be lovely, but it is a lateral move from the public school option he has at the moment, and not an "ambitious" one.

okay see, now I'm rambling, and this is why I try to keep my posts short, sweet, and to the point.    I'm impressed that someone has decided I am trying to get my child into a Catholic school simply out of ambition.

I'm impressed that someone has decided I am trying to get my child into a Catholic school simply out of ambition.

Don't read into that one--you stepped right into a raging issue in the country.  It had little to do with you yourself.  I think it just reminded people of the debate.  There are reports all over of vast increases in the numbers of Catholic baptisms, but little growth in the numbers of those attending masses.  Many say that parents are getting their children baptised simply to get their kids into good schools, which personally I find a bit offensive.

I've actually been thinking about sending my daughter to a Catholic school in the area.  It is a better school, and it seems they get higher numbers of non-Catholics in around here than in some other areas.  It isn't just about it being a better school though.  I'm religious myself and like the idea of her going to a school that doesn't put down her belief system in subtle ways.  Of course, it also helps that the school does quite well.  I'll see.  I have friends who's children go there and quite like it.  I've still got a couple years to decide, but it is something I'm considering.

Thank you for that bit of background on the issue, Cadenza!  It's true, I didn't know what I was setting myself up for here.    I should probably stick to the Food forum for a while, because I don't think I'm quite ready for the Parenting forum yet.

I suppose this might be opening another can of worms, but you say this is an issue specifically with Catholic schools.. why is it not with CofE schools?  Are they run differently?  More like a public school, or something?  Or, just not as strict? 

Some of the baptisms might be explained, as cheesebiscuit said earlier, by the rise in eastern Europeans in the country.  Of the two Catholic families I know, one is Polish.  And if you add us, well, we're American and German.  And now that I think about it, the remaining family is actually made up of a first generation Brit (parents from Italy) and her husband practices one of the Eastern religions.  am rambling again, but it does seem to be the religion of choice for foreigners, for some reason. 

We have a few more years before we need to make any decisions, thankfully. 

Do stick around the parenting forum!!  I find it very helpful, and it's nice to have somewhere you can ask questions using names and things that we had in the states that people will get here. 

I probably worded some of my post a bit strongly.  I don't know that it's a raging argument, but it has been a topic of a lot of discussion lately.  I'm not sure about CofE schools.  I would probably choose a faith school in general over a regular one, but you hear the stories a lot more about Catholic schools.  I'm aware of more Catholic schools than I am CofE ones though, so that may be part of it.

It is an extremely common thing with C of E schools too. Head teachers and vicars are familiar with the phenomenon of parents of rising 11s who have a miraculous return of faith, often coincident with their arrival in the catchment area. It is a very widespread and very current issue. Many parents who hanker for a more "old-fashioned" type of education, but lack the funds for private school fees see faith based schools as the next best thing. I don't really think that the schools are all that fussed about whether the parents walk daily with Jesus or not, but there is a lot of competition for a finite supply of places.

My children go to a catholic primary school in london.  we are protestant and only got in because luckily my children's classes had spaces at the time we needed them.  the school is highly rated, and as such even some catholic siblings are being turned away this year in reception class.  an important issue regarding the age of baptism:  IT IS VERY IMPORTANT when you are applying to secondary schools with high numbers applying.  even if you had a good reason for not doing it under a year (some schools say 6 months) some secondary schools will not even look at  your application.  sadly, if you convert 6 months before applying (as many do) and baptise quickly, your application will be weighted more heavily than a lifelong catholic , church working family who baptised after a year....  strange system but it happens because the good schools are so oversubscribed.

(Not that I'm bitter) but as I have mentioned before my son is at nursery at a CofE school and he failed to get a place next year. We have appealed, but failed. The Vicar (whose son is my sons best friend and I see and chat with every single morning and I have looked after his child etc...) has pretty much let me know that even though I am not a Christian, had I come to church a handful of times throughout the year, he would have signed a religious reference for me and we would have definitely gotten a place. I think that is just the most ridiculous thing to do, not being a Christian especially. I really want my son to go to this school, and although we are second on the waiting list, it looks like our chances are getting slimmer. Not to mention that I live 18 doors away from the school...

(give me any chance to talk about school admissions policy...)

sadly, if you convert 6 months before applying (as many do) and baptise quickly, your application will be weighted more heavily than a lifelong catholic

That is incredibly bizarre to me!    There's nothing I can do now to change his age of baptism, so I just am not going to worry about that at this point.  I hope we'll be able to get the family together later this year so have him baptised, but it's just so difficult to organise having my inlaws and my divorced parents here all at once, from their respective countries.  That's a whole different story, though.

From what I can see from links mentioned earlier in the thread and some information I've found on my own, it seems that the CofE primary schools in the area are the high achievers, Ofsted-wise.  My local public school (Holywell, if you're playing along at home!) scores quite highly as well, whereas the closest Catholic school is decent but not really near as highly rated.  However, since I now know it's affordable to do so, I suspect we'll send him to the Catholic school.

The secondary school in the area does seem to be a bit more competitive, but it sounds like they have a number of non-Catholic students, so I suspect it's not as highly sought after as schools in other parts of the country.  (and as I might have said earlier, hell that's 10 years from now, we could be overseas again by then, knowing us..)  I am planning with the idea that we will still be here, but the more I look into it, it doesn't seem to be much of an issue here.  We do have a big grammar school for boys here (fee-paying) as well as a very good Catholic girls secondary school, so that might affect the numbers.  Not to mention, it's a University town, and there is, from what I hear, a bit of turnover on students due to the children of employees moving away when their families do.  It's mentioned in a few of the reports I've just read.

Cadenza- I do find this forum to be helpful.  I've had excellent advice re: transatlantic flights with infants, and registering his birth.  I think I just need to keep my eyes on the hot button issues now that we're moving on to school things!

racheeee- !!  very funny that he would flat-out tell you that if you'd thrown in a few token visits to church, he would have signed off for you.  That has to be so frustrating!  I'll keep my fingers crossed that a few of the kids ahead of you on the list have to move house or something...

Count me in as another person who was really surprised to find that there were fee-free, State supported Catholic schools.

DH and I are both products of Catholic school education, him from 3rd grade through high school, and I from 1st grade all the way through university. So obviously, this was high on our priority list for our son.

After talking with some people familiar with the schools in the area we're moving to, it seems like you're best bet is to have a combination of 3 criterion---baptised child from a parish-registered and church-attending family as well as being relatively close distance-wise to the school. Obviously if there's a ton of siblings admitted during the year of your application, it can complicate things.

I have no idea what trends of attendance have been in Norwich, but hopefully our son will be able to secure a place in the local Catholic infants school when it comes time.   Er...i certainly hope so because the fees for the local Independent Catholic school are insane!!!!!!!

Best of luck to you!

I thought the idea behind state Catholic schools is that previously state schools were all really CoE.  You took RE and it was a Protestant education.  Catholic communities were upset so they got their own schools.  There are a few state sponsored schools of other faiths as well.