Leaving a Gratuity?

I've just noticed that people are appalled at the idea of tipping.  Which I find a bit odd.  I understand that it's not done here, but if I decide to tip it shouldn't be a huge deal. IMHO.

In the States though if you don't tip, you are costing your server money.  I'm a big believer in the "don't go out if you can't afford to tip *at least* 10%."  If you order alcoholic drinks and don't tip you are costing them more money.  If someone busts their butt carrying 42 soft drinks and baskets of bread to you, and you don't tip- you're rude.  And, as someone who has spent lots of time working in restaurants people do remember the non-tippers.  They're likely to get sneezy food.  But, hey- it's your money.

If someone busts their butt carrying 42 soft drinks and baskets of bread to you, and you don't tip- you're rude.  And, as someone who has spent lots of time working in restaurants people do remember the non-tippers.  They're likely to get sneezy food.  But, hey- it's your money.

Sooo true, and the comment about the sneezy food is hilarious.

The last time I went out for a nice meal in the states was 2 years ago when we visited. It was a little family run italian place and it was the first time my husband & I had been out together just the two of us since our daughter was born. Our bill was $78, we left a $22 tip not because we felt we 'had to' but because we felt we had excellent service.

Now, if I went to Dennys and had to wait 20 minutes for a table, 20 minutes for our order to be taken and then another 20 mintues for the food and then our server acted like I was asking to her slaughter her first born if I needed cream for my coffee or A1 sauce for my burger, and bring the bill at the same time they brought the main (doesn't leave the option to ask for a desert) then no I won't tip. But if they're cheerful & provide good service even if the kitchen is slow, the food wasn't that great or we had to wait for a table then I'll still tip about 15% (in California we just doubled the sales tax).

But the question arises why should I pay extra when the service was crap just because it's expected? I've always felt that a tip was a reward to the person you were giving it to for providing good service.

I worked in restaurant for years including managing some quite big ones and I feel tipping is NOT required if you don't get good service.
Since TIP means - To Ensure Promptness (or prompt service) my Best friends fiancé starts off with 20% in his head.  When he asked for an iced with NO lemon and it comes that way it stays at 20% but if they didn't listen and it comes with it, he knocks a % off.
Same goes with sauce on the side or refills of the drinks without asking ect..
Checking on them after getting the meal to see if they need anything else, do you want dessert or do you need that wrapped to go?

Its about the service and I don't blame the server for slow service (kitchen) but if a server isn't friendly and there to make my dining experience pleasurable then I don't leave a normal size tip.

We went out for dinner tonight to a nice place.  Our bill was 80 quid and I insisted D tip at least a tenner.  He thought that was shocking, but we had great service and a fantastic meal.  Why not give the server a bonus? 

Now you've brought up an interesting point. And yes I do tip in a restaurant, but if the meal is really good shouldn't I be tipping the chef?

Since I have a lot of restaurant experience, I usually cut people slack- sort of.  If I see a server has like 8 tables all over the place and big parties I'm not going to fault them for taking five minutes to get my wine.  That's a management issue, not a server issue.  Also, if someone gives me a lemon accidentally (restaurant lemons are nasty, people who want them and extra should know just how gross they are) I'm not going to fault them.  When you get slammed sometimes you do things by route, and I don't think sometimes forgetting a lemon or whatever makes you a bad server.  The whole "slow kitchen" thing is in my opinion, a lie servers tell to get them out of screwing up putting an order in.  The kitchen is generally way quicker than the server with the exception of stuff like Pizza.  That's just my experience, ymmv.

I don't think people should tip for really bad service (although if you ordered cocktails please leave a buck or two so the server isn't OUT money) and I definitely think tipping ought to be a litmus of the quality of service.  But, I can't tell you the number of times I've smiled and busted my ass for a table to leave me 2 bucks on a $40 tab.  In the States it's just rude to not tip for acceptable service.  D isn't much into tipping here, but in the States he tips at least 15% and $1 per drink at the bar.  When in Rome and all that.

TykeMan- I sort of agree.  However, your waiter is the kitchen ambassador to your table.  One of the things I liked about the service last night was the order of things.  The guy got our drinks on the table pretty quickly, and always asked if we wanted another when the glass was empty.  The starters came about ten minutes after we had our drinks, which to me is perfect.  We were able to start a nice conversation before the food being thrown at us.  There was then about 10 minutes between starter and mains which again I really like as I like to be able to enjoy each course without feeling rushed to start on the next.  The food was fantastic and cooked the way we wanted it- because our server orchestrated everything with the kitchen to make us have a nice meal.  Not sure about the UK, but in the States the kitchen staff are paid much more than the servers so they're compensated for their lack of tips.  A good server is essentially managing the way the kitchen cooks your food, so in my opinion them keeping the tip is the right thing. 

An article about this very subject in today's Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/oct/03/bars-restaurants-pocket-tips

If you tip in the UK it can be taken as insult to your host.

Tipping by Americans in the UK can also be viewed as vulgar.

So we can say this could a clash of culture.

In my opinion

Do not insult people by tipping them.

OK in America.

I just read the Observer article and it again reminded me of going out for the evening so we can tip the low end of the social scale.

Why not a restaurant where tipping and service charges are forbidden? (no I was not forgetting about Jack in the Box )

Lastly when I read these comments about tipping there seems to be too much emphasis on tipping when you go out for the evening. I'm not out for the evening to critique a person.

I'll go and hide in my bunker now

I think the grin our server gave us last night when D handed him a tenner was definitely not insult.

And, thanks for implying I'm considered vulgar.  Not only is it ridiculous- I'm feeling "insulted." But, whatevs to each their own.

I think a lot of things have changed since Cheers regularly lived in the UK. 

Obviously, people feel strongly about this subject for good reason - but ones opinions should not be confused with cold hard facts.  No reason for hurt feelings if someone feels or thinks differently.

The truth is that some servers here are indeed insulted by the concept of tipping.  I've experienced it myself at my local. 

I think a lot of things have changed since Cheers regularly lived in the UK. 

Or since he conjectured things from reading articles.   

I've never had a server or anyone insulted when I've tried to tip  them, however, some will say "are you sure?" if they're in a line of profession not generally tipped. That's not the same as insulting them. If you don't tip in the correct manner especially in a bar it can be construed as a "bribe" to ensure you're served first which can be insulting. I'm not saying it could never happen as obviously I've not met every server in the world, but I would believe it would be very rare.

I've worked menial jobs where you don't get tipped, I've worked bars and restaurants, I've worked in a professional job where people would send me corporate gifts...As someone who's actually been to the UK () here's my advice - if you feel like tipping someone, tip the amount you feel comfortable with. If you're not sure if they'd accept a tip say "I'm really pleased with the way you cut my hair/moved my furniture/mowed my lawn, would you accept a token of my appreciation?"(w.t.e), if you don't feel like tipping then don't, if you're not tipping for very bad service, you should make the manager aware, perhaps at a later date via email/phone.

Or since he conjectured things from reading articles.   

I've never had a server or anyone insulted when I've tried to tip  them, however, some will say "are you sure?" if they're in a line of profession not generally tipped. That's not the same as insulting them. If you don't tip in the correct manner especially in a bar it can be construed as a "bribe" to ensure you're served first which can be insulting. I'm not saying it could never happen as obviously I've not met every server in the world, but I would believe it would be very rare.

I've worked menial jobs where you don't get tipped, I've worked bars and restaurants, I've worked in a professional job where people would send me corporate gifts...As someone who's actually been to the UK () here's my advice - if you feel like tipping someone, tip the amount you feel comfortable with. If you're not sure if they'd accept a tip say "I'm really pleased with the way you cut my hair/moved my furniture/mowed my lawn, would you accept a token of my appreciation?"(w.t.e), if you don't feel like tipping then don't, if you're not tipping for very bad service, you should make the manager aware, perhaps at a later date via email/phone.

Very well put.

From what I can tell, some of the reasons that people should tip in the US don't necessarily apply so much in the UK. From what I've read here and elsewhere online, some restaurant staff in the US get paid only $2.15 an hour and then their tips get them up to minimum wage. Now, as far as I am aware, in the UK the minimum that restaurants must pay per hour is minimum wage, which is currently £5.80 for people aged over 22... converted directly into dollars, £5.80 is $9.16, which is more than 4 times the US wage of $2.15.

So, in the US, you are tipping in order to allow the server to live on a minimum wage, but in the UK, you are tipping because you like the service, as the server already earns a minimum wage anyway so they aren't going to lose any money (that I'm aware of) or not be able to survive if you don't tip.

I'm happy to tip in the US even if the service isn't great, because I know how much they need that tip money, but here in the UK, I know that the server is already earning a decent wage (possibly more than I earn myself) and that a tip is more of a perk than a necessity, so I feel comfortable not tipping or not giving as much tip if the service was bad.

I don't think people should tip for really bad service (although if you ordered cocktails please leave a buck or two so the server isn't OUT money)

Just curious, as I've never worked in a restaurant or bar: how does the server lose money if you don't tip for alcoholic drinks?

I sort of agree.  However, your waiter is the kitchen ambassador to your table.  One of the things I liked about the service last night was the order of things.  The guy got our drinks on the table pretty quickly, and always asked if we wanted another when the glass was empty.  The starters came about ten minutes after we had our drinks, which to me is perfect.  We were able to start a nice conversation before the food being thrown at us.  There was then about 10 minutes between starter and mains which again I really like as I like to be able to enjoy each course without feeling rushed to start on the next.

See, we went out for a work meal a couple of weeks ago and it took an hour between ordering our food and the food actually being served and then I think it took about another 15 minutes after we'd finished eating for the waiter to ask us if we wanted desserts and then another 10 minutes for the desserts to arrive. In total, we were in the restaurant for more than 3 hours! I certainly wasn't all that that happy with the speed of service, so I think I left maybe a pound or two as a tip.

From what I can tell, some of the reasons that people should tip in the US don't necessarily apply so much in the UK. From what I've read here and elsewhere online, some restaurant staff in the US get paid only $2.15 an hour and then their tips get them up to minimum wage. Now, as far as I am aware, in the UK the minimum that restaurants must pay per hour is minimum wage, which is currently £5.80 for people aged over 22... converted directly into dollars, £5.80 is $9.16, which is more than 4 times the US wage of $2.15.

They aren't actually.  That is what the article is about.  

Legislation was introduced in 2009 by the Labour government to prevent employers from using tips and service charges to top up workers' pay to minimum wage levels, a practice exposed by Observer Cash on several occasions prior to the law change. But Unite  says the legislation has been "a total failure", pointing out that once a service charge or non-cash tip has been paid on a bill, the money legally belongs to the restaurant, with no obligation to pass it on to staff.]Legislation was introduced in 2009 by the Labour government to prevent employers from using tips and service charges to top up workers' pay to minimum wage levels, a practice exposed by Observer Cash on several occasions prior to the law change. But Unite  says the legislation has been "a total failure", pointing out that once a service charge or non-cash tip has been paid on a bill, the money legally belongs to the restaurant, with no obligation to pass it on to staff.

The US place is supposed to make up the extra missed out wages, so if they pay 2.15 and the server makes 2 in tips then the place is supposed to make up the difference.  I'm not sure how often that happens, or if it is an average over a certain period of time.

Waiters working for high-street chain Carluccio's, for instance, receive £3.75 per hour, plus three-quarters of tips left by customers on debit or credit cards to top their pay up to the minimum wage. Waiters Cash spoke to said that when this combination of basic pay plus tips leaves staff with less than the minimum wage, Carluccio's adds an extra top-up.

Under the new rules, Carluccio's waiters will continue to be entitled to the minimum wage, but this will have to be paid regardless of tips. However, the company will then be under no obligation to pass on any gratuities.]Waiters working for high-street chain Carluccio's, for instance, receive £3.75 per hour, plus three-quarters of tips left by customers on debit or credit cards to top their pay up to the minimum wage. Waiters Cash spoke to said that when this combination of basic pay plus tips leaves staff with less than the minimum wage, Carluccio's adds an extra top-up.

Under the new rules, Carluccio's waiters will continue to be entitled to the minimum wage, but this will have to be paid regardless of tips. However, the company will then be under no obligation to pass on any gratuities.

I think I would rather get the tips, but who knows.