Stupid questions about hot water...

I feel a bit silly asking this, especially since I've been living in the UK for over 2 years now, but hot water here has me confused. .  I never thought twice about hot water when I lived in the US (not saying that's a good thing).  I just turned on the hot water and it was always there regardless of the season.  So here, if I don't turn on the heat, I don't get hot water.  I know I can switch on the immersion heater, but is this something I'm supposed to leave on all the time in warmer weather?  Or do I just turn it on and off as needed? Over the summer, I've just been turning it on and off, but it gets annoying having to always think about it.  Leaving it on seems like a waste, but maybe this is what people do? I don't know.  What do you guys do?

And what is the purpose of electric showers?  Our house has an electric shower and I  assumed it would heat the water it uses independently, but it doesn't.  I still need to have the heat or immersion heater on.  So what's the point? To provide more water pressure or something? 

And my last silly question: Is it just me, or is hot water way hotter here than in the US? I seem to recall having some sort of device on my water heater in the US that prevented scalding hot water from coming out the tap.  These don't seem to be in place here. At the hospital where I work, I've seen people quickly dash their hands under the cold water after using the toilet.  This "quick dash" to avoid the extremely cold or hot water really isn't good enough to remove germs from your hands, and I can't help but wonder if the hot water wasn't so unbelievably hot, if more people would be willing to spend a bit more time washing their hands properly?

You haven't told us much about your heating system.  Do you have a gas boiler that heats rads and a tank of water, with an electric immersion for a back up?  Or do you have all electric heating and hot water?

Many types of heating systems have timers that allow the heat and hot water to come on at different times of the day.  In this day and age, there's no reason why you should have to turn on the central heating to have hot water.

{RANT WARNING} Hot water in the UK is a pet peeve of mine, so I might make some sweeping generalizations about the UK during this post; these do not indicate a larger lack of love for Great Britain (or a desire to waste energy).  Also, I'm going to denigrate the hot water heating philosophy of my in-laws, who aside from some weird theories regarding electricity, are very nice people.

I feel a bit silly asking this, especially since I've been living in the UK for over 2 years now, but hot water here has me confused. .  I never thought twice about hot water when I lived in the US (not saying that's a good thing).  I just turned on the hot water and it was always there regardless of the season. 

You're not alone!  I never thought about hot water in the US, and find the bewildering array of hot water systems in the UK, and the overly complex methods of heating water ridiculous.  I've lived in about 5 different houses/apartments over the last 3 years, and gotten to know the ins and outs of several methods, from the type you describe, to hot water heaters like we had in the US, to the instant on type.  If it heats water in the UK, I've probably sworn at it at least once.

So here, if I don't turn on the heat, I don't get hot water.  I know I can switch on the immersion heater, but is this something I'm supposed to leave on all the time in warmer weather?  Or do I just turn it on and off as needed? Over the summer, I've just been turning it on and off, but it gets annoying having to always think about it.  Leaving it on seems like a waste, but maybe this is what people do? I don't know.  What do you guys do?

A friend's apartment in London had the sort of system where the heat and hot water are connected, and I don't get it, either.  I've only stayed with them in the winter, so I don't know what they do in the summer.  I assume they run the heat but turn off the steam heaters in their apartment.

My in-laws, on the other hand, have an immersion heater (big hot water tank in the cupboard in the bathroom) and this is set on a timer so that it heats water from 5am to about 8am when everyone takes showers.  If they want hot water any other time, they flick a switch on the wall next to the tank and then wait for about 30 minutes (or longer if they want a hot bath). 

It is their contention that they are saving money by not having the water heated all the time.  My counter argument is that they may be using more energy by heating a large volume of water from very cold to very hot several times per day than they would by maintaining a large volume of water at a high temperature all the time.  I would love to put this theory to a test.

In a related note, they don't turn the hot water on before washing clothes, but they still turn the washer knob to whatever temperature they think is correct.  The washing machine doesn't heat water itself, so I don't know what effect they think this has.  I haven't asked, because I don't think I want to know the answer.

And what is the purpose of electric showers?  Our house has an electric shower and I  assumed it would heat the water it uses independently, but it doesn't.  I still need to have the heat or immersion heater on.  So what's the point? To provide more water pressure or something? 

All the electric showers I've encountered did heat the shower water independently, so the one you've got may be an aberration.

And my last silly question: Is it just me, or is hot water way hotter here than in the US? I seem to recall having some sort of device on my water heater in the US that prevented scalding hot water from coming out the tap.  These don't seem to be in place here.

This has been my experience, too, and I don't understand how a society that can at times seem overwhelmed by nannying health and safety concerns can abide the widespread use of hot water systems capable of putting out boiling hot water.

I really do like living in the UK, but whenever I think about the hot water thing, I really miss the USA.

{/RANT}

The hot water thing baffles me too!

So far I've lived in 2 places that both have completely different systems. 

In the flat, we had this little boiler thing in the kitchen that was for the heat and the hot water.  In the winter, we had it on a timer to heat the house and there would always be hot water ready to go.  Otherwise we had it "switched off" although it was never really off.  What I mean by this is that it would not constantly make hot water, but if you turned on a hot water tap for any amount of time over 5 seconds, the boiler thingy would automatically kick on like it was going to make some hot water.  Obviously I was going to be finished doing what ever I was doing before it would ever manage to actually heat the water!  We had an electric shower that heated the water itself, so there were no problems there.

In this house, we do not have central heating (don't even get me started on this  )  So the water is it's own entity.  We keep it switched off because 1) We have an electric shower that heats the water itself 2) Both the washer and the dishwasher heat the water as well, so there's really not much need for it unless I want to have a bath.  It would be extortionate to keep the hot water on, so we just leave it alone and turn it on on Sundays for a nice soak.

LOL camoscoto, that really wasn't much of a rant

FWIW, our hot water is nothing like what you describe (either of you).  It's not connected to our heating, and we can set the water temperature ourselves.  However, our flat is recently renovated, so it may be that we have the latest in UK hot water technology   My in-laws have the same situation that Camoscoto describes; the water is hot for a few hours in the morning, but if you want a bath in the middle of the day, you have to push a button in the pantry and wait half an hour. 

All the electric showers I've encountered did heat the shower water independently, so the one you've got may be an aberration.

Ours heats independently, as I thing all properly-working ones do.  Last year, I rented a room in a flat where the gas was pay-as-you-go on a meter, but even when the money had run out and there was no hot water from the taps, the electric shower still had hot water.  If I were you, I would see about getting a new shower device. 

1. It depends on the type of boiler you have. I've just replaced mine. Previously, like you I had to turn it on for hot water a hour or so before I wanted it, unless heating was on in which case it was heating the water up. I Now I have a combi boiler which heats the water as required - most new boilers fitted will be like this. So to answer your question, you need to do it as you are.

2. Your shower is not an electric shower, electric showers heat the water as required, you've most likely got a power shower which uses electric to drive the pump in order to get a greater flow of water.

volume of water at a high temperature all the time.  I would love to put this theory to a test.

In a related note, they don't turn the hot water on before washing clothes, but they still turn the washer knob to whatever temperature they think is correct.  The washing machine doesn't heat water itself, so I don't know what effect they think this has.  I haven't asked, because I don't think I want to know the answer.
{/RANT}

Must be an old washing machine because as long as I remember the washer will heat the water if the water is not hot enough. In fact the washer I have now only has a cold water input, and is considered more economical for it to heat the water to the temp it needs than to take in hot water and need to cool it with cold.

The hot water thing baffles me too!

So far I've lived in 2 places that both have completely different systems. 

In the flat, we had this little boiler thing in the kitchen that was for the heat and the hot water.  In the winter, we had it on a timer to heat the house and there would always be hot water ready to go.  Otherwise we had it "switched off" although it was never really off.  What I mean by this is that it would not constantly make hot water, but if you turned on a hot water tap for any amount of time over 5 seconds, the boiler thingy would automatically kick on like it was going to make some hot water.  Obviously I was going to be finished doing what ever I was doing before it would ever manage to actually heat the water!  We had an electric shower that heated the water itself, so there were no problems there.

In this house, we do not have central heating (don't even get me started on this  )  So the water is it's own entity.  We keep it switched off because 1) We have an electric shower that heats the water itself 2) Both the washer and the dishwasher heat the water as well, so there's really not much need for it unless I want to have a bath.  It would be extortionate to keep the hot water on, so we just leave it alone and turn it on on Sundays for a nice soak.

You've basically described both systems I mentioned.
1 is a combi boiler, most common these days.

2. Is what I just replaced. Like you I didn't tend to put the water on in the summer. If I needed hot water for washing dishes I boiled up a kettle of water.....same for a shave, or I'd take water from shower.

Must be an old washing machine because as long as I remember the washer will heat the water if the water is not hot enough. In fact the washer I have now only has a cold water input, and is considered more economical for it to heat the water to the temp it needs than to take in hot water and need to cool it with cold.

Now you've sown the seeds of doubt into my theory.  If it turns out that my in-laws' washing machine is independently heating its own water, I retract that portion of my remarks and request they be stricken from the record.  However, I have no intention of seeing for myself exactly how the washing machine heats (or does not heat) water, because one of the possible answers severely weakens my earlier argument.   

My in-laws, on the other hand, have an immersion heater (big hot water tank in the cupboard in the bathroom) and this is set on a timer so that it heats water from 5am to about 8am when everyone takes showers.  If they want hot water any other time, they flick a switch on the wall next to the tank and then wait for about 30 minutes (or longer if they want a hot bath). 

It is their contention that they are saving money by not having the water heated all the time.  My counter argument is that they may be using more energy by heating a large volume of water from very cold to very hot several times per day than they would by maintaining a large volume of water at a high temperature all the time.  I would love to put this theory to a test.

If cylinders are adequately lagged (insulated) to modern standards, then the cylinder itself will keep the water hot for a long period of time.  What's the since of heating water when it's already to temperature?

For instance, a gas boiler (not a combi), if properly set with controls, will heat a cylinder of water to the temperature on the cylinder stat.  Once the cylinder stat is satisfied, it will not ask the boiler to fire for hot water.

If the temperature falls below that of the stat overnight, then why have the boiler fire to heat water during a time that no one will use it?  That's when a time programmer comes in handy.  Have the boiler fire an hour before getting up .. et viola, hot water.  The cylinder won't go stone cold unless you have some relic of a cylinder.  Same goes for people that are at work all day.  Have it fire before you get home.

And my last silly question: Is it just me, or is hot water way hotter here than in the US? I seem to recall having some sort of device on my water heater in the US that prevented scalding hot water from coming out the tap.  These don't seem to be in place here.

This has been my experience, too, and I don't understand how a society that can at times seem overwhelmed by nannying health and safety concerns can abide the widespread use of hot water systems capable of putting out boiling hot water.

There are such things as anti-scale valves and they are most certainly used over here.  Equally, if you have a system that is putting out scalding hot water, then I'd suggest either something is wrong with the system itself or the cylinder stat is up way too high. 60C is enough to kill legionella.  If you are over 60C, try turning it down to something more manageable.

1. It depends on the type of boiler you have. I've just replaced mine. Previously, like you I had to turn it on for hot water a hour or so before I wanted it, unless heating was on in which case it was heating the water up. I Now I have a combi boiler which heats the water as required - most new boilers fitted will be like this. So to answer your question, you need to do it as you are.

This isn't necessarily true.  I put in hundreds of boilers and it's an nearly equal split between combis and regular/system boilers (those with hot water cylinders) -- with the regular/systems just pipping the combis.  Combis aren't right for every situation and are certainly not good for a home with more than one bathroom.  Nor are they overly spectacular for those that are more partial baths than showers (water pressure).

The other downside to a combi is once it breaks down, and I assure it will, you will be without heat AND hot water whereas those with a cylinder can use their immersion as a back up for hot water.

Combis aren't right for every situation and are certainly not good for a home with more than one bathroom.  Nor are they overly spectacular for those that are more partial baths than showers (water pressure).

Right. We have a brand new boiler, but it's not a combi. We were advised that for a house the size of ours, we'd be better off with a cylinder.

I don't actually find it to be an issue. We have the hot water set on a timer in the early morning, so there's always hot water ready for our morning baths/showers. That generally keeps it hot until early afternoon. Then it comes on again late afternoon so that there's hot water for washing up and cleaning the kitchen after supper. There are really only about 2 hours during the day when I don't have hot water on demand.

My old house (a tiny cottage) had a combi unit. I did enjoy having hot water whenever I wanted it, but ...

The other downside to a combi is once it breaks down, and I assure it will, you will be without heat AND hot water whereas those with a cylinder can use their immersion as a back up for hot water.

This. 

LOL, chary.  I've made that face before.  About 5 minutes after I realised my boiler went down.

I have a combi.  Have nothing against them.  I live in a 2 bed flat with one bathroom.  It's a logical choice for our set-up.

But I'd kill for a cylinder (on a sealed system) if I had the room for it.

Your reasonable responses to my rant, Mrs C, have disarmed me!  

I get all of what you're saying, and I agree there's no need for hot water in the middle of the night or during the day if everyone is at work.  My in-laws, however, do not alter their hot water timing methods no matter who is in the house or what time it is.  In other words, if you want hot water at 3pm, you better go turn the thing on at 2:30 or you'll be out of luck come 3.

I realize this is not actually the hot water heater's fault, but the fact that a timer is even provided in the first place means it is complicit in England's evil scheme to deprive me of hot water on demand, so I'm not cutting it any slack.

{Again, I don't hate England and I'm not seriously mad about any of this; it's just a pet peeve that's fun to rant about.}

Carl, I know you don't hate England!    And I agree, heating is fun to argue about.  I argue about it all day work.  Lucky girl, eh?

I find with older folks it's really hard to get them to embrace modern heating controls.  They always used to push that boost button to get an extra bit of hot water and by God if it was good enough for 30 years, it's good enough now. 

It's very hard to comment on your in-laws' situation because I don't know enough about their system.  But I suspect they are home most of the time.  There are modern controls for heat/hot water that have three 'on' times a day.  So for me because I work, a twice a day 'on' time would suit my water usage, but retired couple who have a higher hot water usage mid-day might benefit from three 'on' periods.

As I mentioned above, the older folks do struggle with technology.  Most of them just want to turn it on when they are ready and are willing to wait that half an hour to hour to heat the cylinder.

Since I've moved here and been working with central heating, I've thought a lot about how my mother would heat hot water back home.  Hers was an oil-fired system and we ALWAYS had hot water.  ALWAYS.  I suspect that the system fired as often as the temperature dipped below the cylinder stat (no time controls).  So if it dropped to 55C and the stat was set to 60C, it would fire to re-heat to 60C.  When you think about it, 55C is more than enough to bathe and wash dishes.  Whilst it was nice to have hot water on demand, I think that her set-up was wasteful of energy.

That's the beauty of the modern controls.  With a little patience and understanding, you can have heat/hot water to suit your demands without being wasteful (to your pocket and environment).