Your opinion needed on South UK

Hi, I'm considering an employment opportunity in Eastleigh, near Southampton. I am leaving the US in for a higher quality of life (now and in the future), better education and social system. Possibilities in Germany, but I don't speak German yet so that's an issue for me and my daughter(12).
Please offer your insights (positive and/or negative). I would be very grateful.
Thanks,
Michael (EU citizen)

Hi pegasusdba,

Your overall question is extremely open ended and will garner every kind of response covering extremely negative to extremely positive..  and everything in between!

Just to pick up on your points

The USA overall has a better quality of life than the UK. Better Education, quite possibly, but how do you measure 'better education?' for me, better education translates into more knowledge in various industry sectors once people gain their qualifications. There are many industry sectors where the USA leads the world. Other countries lead the world in other sectors too. For the UK, there's limited sectors of industry where it's the best in the world. Yes, there are pockets of specialisations where perhaps the UK has leading teams or knowledge. Better Social system..  Yes, the UK is generally thought upon as having a really good social system and by and large I agree. However there are some deep seated problems with the social system from varying viewpoints, be that from the sensationalist headlines of failures, which also do serve to highlight fundamental issues to the actual workers in the various systems and government/social departments.


Have a read around the site here and ask away, pretty much all topics and viewpoints have been covered before, so it boils down to what is suitable for you and your personal scenario. What kind of industry are you in? what sorts of jobs are you considering? entry level? mid management? senior CEO?   what things are you looking for? whats your lifestyle..  and the list goes on!

I tend to mention things from a financial/fiscal point of view and high level statistical stuff relating to most things.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Hi and thanks for the response.
I came across a comment by someone today pointing out the distinction between "standard of living" (income, low tax, good retirement) and "quality  of life" (comfort and convenience of our community, social cohesion, physical and social activities). The former is my starting point, looking to achieve the latter.
I don't want to compare the US to the UK, since I'm intent on leaving; I'm looking for comments about the south-central area of the UK, since I'm a Business Analyst looking at an opporttunity in the Southampton area.
Is the Southampton area a good place to have a family? Should I be able to find a good public school for my 12 year old? Anything I should be particularly cautious about?
Thanks in advance!

I can offer no back-up for this but I found the people in the SW to be a bit more open and friendly than in the midlands. Just a small perception.....perhaps imagined....

The education here is a lot more personal here, rather than the American system of 'I'm going to give you a lecture, then you're going to turn to page 24 and do some questions', this is also true at higher levels such as Universities, the UK has some of the oldest and most prestigious universities whose courses are recognized internationally and generally tend to be to a lot higher level than the U.S, for example if you wanted to become a Paramedic here, you'd be trained to a degree level rather than being able to get away with a diploma, if you came here as a qualified American paramedic you'd be told that you'd barely qualify to be a medical technician. Standards are higher here, so education for specialized subjects are higher to.

While high school is still high school (basically meaning, when your kids and you don't really care that much) it's still a good experience, some schools are better than others, definitely do research before choosing a school (been to many all over the UK myself, religious schools tended to have a better focus on discipline, public schools tended to be laid back and relaxed, which isn't a bad thing, but then again, some can be bad).

if your thinking about Germany they have an excellent education system as well, they have a high focus on standards of living, but it'll be a major culture shock for you and your daughter to go there, the Germans can be pretty strange at times, the difference between the two is Germany has a really big focus on the standards of living, and the UK has a bigger focus on the quality of life.

Another thing you'll want to know about the South is it attracts a lot of tourism, far far more than Germany does for their small coastline, I can't comment on Southampton specifically, having never spent much time there, but from the Devon, Cornwall area, beaches are really packed during the summer, and the town centers as well.

Life here generally tends to be pretty laid back and relaxed, I'd suggest a holiday here, see some different places before making your mind up for sure, Germany isn't too far away and can be accessed by tunnel, so do some research, put some thought into it and I'm sure you'll be fine  

hi Pegasusdba,

Ok, lets leave out comparisons to the US.

You say you're looking to acheive a 'good quality of life' which is pretty much what everyone wants nowadays. To 'get' a good quality of life, will hinge on the realistic income levels you will get as well as the lifestyle choices you have in terms of costs of living. Only you can evaluate and judge that based on the opportunity you are looking at.

The 'South East' of the UK is the most concentrated in terms of job opportunities, correspondingly, it's also the highest in terms of costs of living especially when it comes to living arrangements. Rents in the South East are the most expensive, as property prices/values are also the highest in the country. Bear that in mind when you scan for potential places to live in balance with the income you'll be likely to get.

Is Southampton a good place to have a family? well it's as good as anywhere else!! You will find a good school and that could be helped by perhaps looking at the tables giving individual schools performance figures etc.

Anything to be particularly cautious about? ..  bit vague there! what are you're concerns ?

As mentioned, many of the members here have gone through everything with an international move and with things like kids to think about too. Keep looking through the posts here and perhaps other web articles and sites etc.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

The education here is a lot more personal here, rather than the American system of 'I'm going to give you a lecture, then you're going to turn to page 24 and do some questions', this is also true at higher levels such as Universities, the UK has some of the oldest and most prestigious universities whose courses are recognized internationally and generally tend to be to a lot higher level than the U.S, for example if you wanted to become a Paramedic here, you'd be trained to a degree level rather than being able to get away with a diploma, if you came here as a qualified American paramedic you'd be told that you'd barely qualify to be a medical technician. Standards are higher here, so education for specialized subjects are higher to.

That depends entirely on the subject some things that require a degree in the US only require City and Guild certficates here.

Also, paramedic courses in the US can be as long as 4 years.  EMT-B courses are a different issue.  But UK paramedics almost almost all paid employees, whereas in the US many are volunteers.  Also, the US has a much wider area that has a lower population density than the UK.  

If you need an EMT to cover Wyoming, and it isn't a paying job because what un-incorporated township could afford to pay them, who would want to take a full time degree course to volunteer?  

Besides which, in the UK according to the NHS you can do a degree to become a Paramedic in one year.  So it isn't as if it is a four year degree.  Plus, you can enter as a "student trainee" and have no university experience at all.  So, your statement is untrue.  

Anyone wishing to work as a paramedic will now need to either secure a student paramedic position with an ambulance service trust, or attend an approved full-time course in paramedic science at a university.

 

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=905

In general, outcomes in the UK and the US tend to be relatively similar.  It is easier in the UK because the country is smaller, the population is more dense, so you are more likely to be closer to a hospital and therefore have a better outcomes.  

However, in taking classes in Emergency Management at a University, we studied different countries approaches and the UK and US are relatively comparable so the question is do paramedics need to have a degree?

Some Universities in the UK are highly regarded, but then so are many in the US.  Some Unis in the UK aren't great and likewise in the US.  

I would like to see some proof that standards are higher in the UK to enter the University of East Anglia as opposed to attending Harvard.  

I think the south is lovely! All areas of the UK have their charm though. Even the West Midlands have decent housing prices to recommend them. I like the south because it's pretty and relatively close to London. I definitely wouldn't worry about coming to the UK for that reason. I'm not familiar with Southampton, but I like Portsmouth, which is nearby. Just make sure to do your research on neighborhoods before choosing a flat/house since that would play a huge role on how happy you are.

I'm not here in the UK because I think it's better than the US -- like any place it has its faults. If anything I think US education is better. (Bullying is a huge problem here, and conformity is really encouraged, at least from all that I've heard. And I was shocked by the writing skills of the students I TAed.) I don't think the UK - or Germany for that matter - did terribly well in PISA. I'm not trying to discourage you from coming - not at all. A change and new perception of the world is good. And it can be very fun.

I spent several years in Germany, and I would also say that it would be easier to adapt to life in the UK. Best of luck with whatever you choose.

Pegasusdba there are advantages to all three countries.  But quite a bit of it depends on what you have where.  Is your child in a good school in the US, do you have family closer in Germany?  All these things come into play.

Sorry to derail one last time, but the reason why US Paramedics aren't able to work in the UK is the same reason why they can't drive without taking the test.  Each individual state grants a license so the UK gov't would need to work with each state health department.  Even different counties in PA have different standing orders.  I was trained to use a pulse-ox in Centre, but couldn't use it in Lehigh. 

For instance, I have my EMT-B license and got a job at an organisation that provides first aid event cover and I would have been able to transfer, but my cert had lasped.  They recognised the US certification for volunteer work, but the NHS does not. 

Pegasusdba there are advantages to all three countries.  But quite a bit of it depends on what you have where.  Is your child in a good school in the US, do you have family closer in Germany?  All these things come into play.

Sorry to derail one last time, but the reason why US Paramedics aren't able to work in the UK is the same reason why they can't drive without taking the test.  Each individual state grants a license so the UK gov't would need to work with each state health department.  Even different counties in PA have different standing orders.  I was trained to use a pulse-ox in Centre, but couldn't use it in Lehigh. 

For instance, I have my EMT-B license and got a job at an organisation that provides first aid event cover and I would have been able to transfer, but my cert had lasped.  They recognised the US certification for volunteer work, but the NHS does not. 

I don't know what your looking at for this "1 year course" but if I were to say such a thing to them I'd have my hand bitten off, and get kicked out the god damn door.

CMTs in the army can be trained to a higher level than paramedics, have more experience, and still not qualify to be a paramedic despite that.

I'd be very surprised if anyone acknowledged volunteer work instead of qualifications and actual job experience, as a volunteer you could be sitting in the countryside doing naff all.

CMTs in the army can be trained to a higher level than paramedics, have more experience, and still not qualify to be a paramedic despite that.

Perhaps if you could post an introduction in the Welcome Wagon section, tell us a little about yourself & what brings you to UKY we could better understand your point of view...besides we like to welcome newcomers no matter where they're from. 

I found it on the NHS website, on the link I helpfully provided above. 

Coventry University
Dip HE in Paramedic Science

Website icon www.coventry.ac.uk

Full time 1 year Undergraduate diploma

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/coursefinder/FindCourse.aspx

There are 4 year degrees but there are also those degrees in the US and as I noted, you don't need to do any degree at all.

As a volunteer you still need to be trained, to the same level as a paid EMT in the US.  It just depends on your location as to whether there are paid positions.

According to Essex NHS: http://www.essexambulance.nhs.uk/hr_training.asp

Currently, the vast majority paramedics are qualified emergency medical technicians (EMTs) who have undertaken further training. Training for paramedics lasts seven weeks full time or can be completed at a rate of one day per week over nine months.

Bookgrl, you seem to be claiming that a UK paramedic only has 7 weeks training and that simply isn''t true. The full quote from that Essex NHS website that you quoted, reads (my bold)

Training To Be A Paramedic

Paramedics are state-registered by the Health Professions Council (www.hpc-uk.org) and are highly regarded as pre-hospital care professionals. Currently, the vast majority paramedics are qualified emergency medical technicians (EMTs) who have undertaken further training. Training for paramedics lasts seven weeks full time or can be completed at a rate of one day per week over nine months. Students also spend time in hospital working in the operating theatres, A&E and other areas of the hospital.

The future offers other options for those aspiring to become paramedics, with students attending university to gain their academic/paramedic qualifications before joining an ambulance service.


And

Paramedics must start out as EMTs (Emergency Medical Technicians). After EMTs become qualified, they must work for at least six months before they can begin training to become paramedics.

Training for paramedics lasts seven weeks full time or can be completed at a rate of one day per week over nine months. Upon completion of their course, paramedics must be registered with the Health Professions Council before they can practice.
http://www.essexambulance.nhs.uk/ae_paramedics.asp


On “the future” talked about above, go to the NHS site and they state:-

Traditionally, staff joining the ambulance service could work their way up with experience and additional training from care assistant, through ambulance technician to paramedic. However, this route is no longer open to new entrants.

Anyone wishing to work as a paramedic will now need to either secure a student paramedic position with an ambulance service trust, or attend an approved full-time course in paramedic science at a university.

Entry requirements for student paramedic positions will vary, depending upon the employing NHS ambulance service trust. Visit the NHS Jobs website to search for student paramedic vacancies (see section below).

The range of paramedic science courses at university varies in terms of entry requirements  - from GCSEs to A’ levels or equivalent qualifications - and so it is a case of contacting each university directly for information on their admissions policy.
http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=905[/url]

So it’s now either a fulltime paramedic science course at university or a student paramedic position like the one below.

You’ll train to be a paramedic over three years. Your training will be split into modules and combine lessons with practical placements and workshops so knowledge gained in the classroom can be put into practice on the road.
Our course covers everything from driving an ambulance and fast response car to advanced patient assessments. It is divided into four levels and includes:

Level one
•   Learning the basics of ambulance aid.
•   Three-week ambulance driving course.
•   Two-week placement on an ambulance under supervision.
•   Six-week clinical management module using scenario-based workshops to put learning into practice.
•   A further placement of at least 150 hours working on an ambulance under supervision.
•   Advanced patient assessment module including learning how to record the activity of a patient’s heart using an electrocardiogram (ECG) and clinical examination scenarios.

Level two
•   A 12-month work-based placement with access to a mentor.
•   Production of a portfolio of experiences.
•   Ongoing theoretical, practical and work-based assessments.

Level three
•   A 12-month work-based placement where you will carry out all duties up to the level of training you’ve received.
•   Portfolio will be continued and your mentor will offer support and advice.
•   Study including ethics and law, clinical decision-making, clinical audit and research, sociology, psychology and health promotion.

Level four
•   Practical 16-week placement undertaking all skills learned on the course including paramedic-level skills under direct supervision (apart from administering controlled drugs, which cannot be completed until you are registered at the end of the course).
•   Four-week placement and completion of portfolio.
•   One-week course working as a single responder when you will train to work on your own in a fast response car.

If you successfully complete the course you will receive a paramedic certificate and will be eligible to apply for registration with the Health Professions Council.
http://www.londonambulance.nhs.uk/working_for_us/career_opportunities/ambulance_staff/student_paramedics.aspx

If you need an EMT to cover Wyoming, and it isn't a paying job because what un-incorporated township could afford to pay them, who would want to take a full time degree course to volunteer? 

Are you in Wyoming bookgrl? I am in Wyoming and my husband took the EMT-B courses, but I am not touching that debate with a 10 foot pole... but I can tell you first hand that the medical system here is horrible.

I came across a comment by someone today pointing out the distinction between "standard of living" (income, low tax, good retirement) and "quality of life" (comfort and convenience of our community, social cohesion, physical and social activities). The former is my starting point, looking to achieve the latter.

I very much agree and it makes my eye twitch when I hear the 'US has a higher standard of living' phrase because I think it is a misleading statement. It is a buzz term. The answer depends on your standards, and what is important to you and your family. My husband and I want the security that we wont go bankrupt if one of us or a child gets sick, that we wont be rejected from a hopital because we cant afford insurance, that a higher education is affordable and smaller issues like the labeling of GMO... so for us- the UK offers a 'higher standard of living'.

I know there are good and bad areas in both countries.
My husband grew up in Glasgow and attended private schools but moved to California and entered the 7th grade. On his first day of school in the US the class had to take a US states geography test. It was a blank map and you had to name all the states- my husband was the only one to get 100% right. After the quiz a girl brought an open book with a map of the US and asked him to point to where Scotland was. In 7th grade.
I grew up in Iowa (which has a very high education rating) and graduated in two years of high school simply because I wasn't learning anything. I was bored and because of my age they could not provide me with further education.
My husband and I play games (because we are nerds) and compare basic knowledge and quiz each other often. I am (sort of) ashamed to say I lose almost all the time. We realize the huge gaps in (my) earlier education... basic measurements, world geography, history, sciences... and as parents we know that teaching those things and making sure our children know them are our responsibility. My lack of knowledge in those areas are not because I did not pay attention- I simply was not taught it, it was sort of covered but very vaguely.

The education here is a lot more personal here, rather than the American system of 'I'm going to give you a lecture, then you're going to turn to page 24 and do some questions'.

.

I think as parents having the support of more personal education is a huge factor in decided which place is best for us. We want to help, not have to fight. My current manager is in a huge battle with the local school system regarding her 6 year old son- who's teacher says he needs to be put on medication to pay attention- but he is not behind in classwork and has no behavioral issues.
I have tried 3 times to enroll in college- two separate colleges told me that because I was single, white, had never been on any government aid and had no children that I did not qualify for much assistance and would have to take out huge loans... or I could stay single and go get pregnant. One of them went so far as to suggest that a 'minority' baby would qualify me for even more aid. (She said that with a disturbingly cheery smile too.) The other one refused to complete my application because I was not old enough to be considered independent and I 'wouldn't' give them my fathers previous tax information - somehow missing the fact that he had been dead for 4 years at that point so there was no information to give. I do not have family- so there is no financial support- and I was struggling to pay medical bills so I choose not to put myself further into debt.

I think those are very personal issues. My husband and I are do not have dreams of making tons of money and living in a big house- we just want to spend as much time with each other and our (future) family as possible. We are not 'consumers' by choice. We care more about 'value of life' than 'standard of living'.

Pegasusdba- I would think that a language barrier would be difficult to overcome for a 12 year old girl, adjusting to such a big change would be tough enough. That is just a quick observation though- I lived in Japan (Without parents or chaperons- I just wanted to live there after I graduated high school so I saved and went.) and the immersion worked very well for me and I picked up enough to get by and make friend in just a few weeks. I think it helped me make friends because they liked trying to teach me and I was curious about everything. It is still one of my favorite places... but again I think it depends entirely on an individual.

Are you in Wyoming bookgrl? I am in Wyoming and my husband took the EMT-B courses, but I am not touching that debate with a 10 foot pole... but I can tell you first hand that the medical system here is horrible.

No, no.    

I was just using Wyoming as an example of a place where there are no people compared to the UK.  It is much easier to get the cash together for paid services when your population density is 395 people per square mile as opposed to 5.4 per square mile.  There is just more of everything because there are more people.