University in the UK

So I'll start out by saying I'm a twin, and my brother and I do everything together. We're fraternal twins, boy and girl, but we look *so* alike and to be honest he's my very best friend. That being said, we both want to follow in our parents' footsteps and be physicians and want to attend the same universities. However, we're having this ongoing argument over whether or not we want to go to University in the UK or the US. So I wasn't really sure where to post this but I figure this section makes sense...
Anyway so which would make more financial sense? Which do you think would be better quality? And if anyone knows of any partciularly good UK medical schools that info would be much appreciated as well 

Anyway so which would make more financial sense?

It depends on the fees that you would be paying in the US as to which makes more financial sense. In the UK, you would have to pay international fees (because even though you have UK citizenship, you can't qualify for UK home fees until you have lived in the UK for 3 years) - and international fees are anywhere from about £10,000 to £15,000 per year.

So, depending on the cost of fees at the schools you are considering in the US, it could be either cheaper or more expensive to study in the UK.

Which do you think would be better quality?

It really depends on the subject you would be studying and the style of education/teaching that works best for you.

In the UK, university degrees are only 3 years instead of 4 years, and you study just one subject only for the entire 3 years. You have to apply for a specific course in a specific department, so you would need to decide on your major before you apply (and it may be difficult to change your subject once you start the degree). Usually you will take all your classes in that one subject, all in the same department, and will have the majority of your classes with the same people.

Also, because of the difference in education systems, you may find that you don't quite meet the requirements for a UK university yet. In the UK, education is only compulsory up to age 16... so the qualifications we get at 16 are approximately equivalent to a US high school diploma.

However, if we want to go to university, we have to take an extra 2 years of 'A levels' (advanced level qualifications) specialising in 3 to 5 subjects. These 2 years are approximately equivalent to AP classes in high school or the first year or two of college in the US... and they are the minimum requirements to be accepted into a UK university.

I studied abroad in the US in the third year of my UK undergraduate degree (I did a 4-year undergraduate masters degree) and I went straight from second-year undergrad classes in the UK to Senior- and Graduate-level classes in the US.

And if anyone knows of any partciularly good UK medical schools that info would be much appreciated as well 

UK medical degrees are usually undergraduate degrees, so rather than doing a bachelors first and then going to medical school as a grad student - you would go straight into medical school at 18. It's a 5-year degree, so many people graduate at age 23 with their medical degree and then do 2 years of foundation (on the job) training in a hospital. However, it is possible to get into medical school as a graduate if you have a different undergraduate degree.

In order to get into medical school as an undergraduate, you usually need at least 3 A levels in a minimum of two of the following subjects: Biology, Physics, Chemistry and Maths... and ideally you want to get A grades in as many as possible - the minimum entry for medical degrees is usually 2 A grades and 1 B grade.

The degree isn't exactly transferable.  It can be complicated for medical students, but honestly there are amazing medical programs in the US, if you can get into one of the top ones there then I would think there would be little point in coming to the UK.   

Well the thing is I don't have a choice about coming over to the UK for my senior year (13th year here I think it's called...) and I'm fairly sure I'm going to lose my California residency which gives me much cheaper tuition fees though I could go home and do a junior college then transfer to save money. I've done numerous AP classes and I'm a straight A student here but not sure how those would really transfer over to the UK...I've done AP Biology, AP US History, a year of AP English, a year of AP Spanish and AP Calculus so will UK Universities treat those classes as Universities in the US would or am I rather screwed since I'm coming in only for my final year?

I suppose it depends on where you want to work really.  It is hard choice.

I've done numerous AP classes and I'm a straight A student here but not sure how those would really transfer over to the UK...I've done AP Biology, AP US History, a year of AP English, a year of AP Spanish and AP Calculus so will UK Universities treat those classes as Universities in the US would or am I rather screwed since I'm coming in only for my final year?

That's good that you've done AP classes - usually the equivalent entry requirement for US students is 5 AP qualifications (at level/grade 5 or above).

Have you looked into whether you will actually be able to do your final year here in the UK? I ask because year 13 is the second year of the 2-year A level courses so I don't know if you would be allowed to actually enroll just for that year... you would have missed out on the first year of classes, coursework and exams and the year 13 work continues on from them.

The A level courses are split into two qualifications: AS level (i.e. year 12), which equates to 1/2 of an A level qualication and A2 level (i.e. year 13) which is the other 1/2 of the qualification. You can't take the A2 qualification (year 13) if you haven't taken AS level first (year 12).

However, as most schools/FE colleges are fairly flexible with post-16 education, you may be able to enroll in a school/college and just take AS level classes with the year 12 students instead. As you already have the AP classes behind you from the US, you may not even be required to enroll in a school or FE college for year 13 and may be able to get into university with the qualifications you already have (although it might be helpful to get some AS level qualifications under your belt as well).

You can go to UK university without having A-levels.  I work at the American School in London and kids from our school go to UK universities with just APs all the time.  And most only need 2-3 APs not 5 of them...but to go to a good university you will probably need 5's or 4's as your scores.

Keep in mind that medical degrees in the UK are VERY different to medical degrees in the US - you don't do pre-med in the UK...you actually do a medical degree right from year one of university.  I suggest doing a lot more research!

To be honest I was leaning more towards going back to the US after my year there is up and I'm 18, but I mean will I even be able to go back to the US and go to a University?? Will any of my classes I took in the US count towards any of these A level classes? I'm strong in math and science, and I've taken a lot of classes in the US to prove that. I did my bio last year and will be finishing chem this year and I'm ahead in math! Is there anything I can do??

Why don't you consider the American school in London where Onetiger works?  Since you'll be in London anyway, and it'd be far easier for you to stay in the American system for your final year. 

Hi Vivienne & Twin!

Some excellent information to start you off evaluating this potential choice of doing your medical learning here in the UK or in the US.

This topic has come up a few times in the past here on this forum. I suggest you have a look at these posts and also look to other forums and sites which give you more of an insight with regards to Medical knowledge and learning and careers in the UK and the USA.

I have many of my extended family who are in India, the UK, USA and Canada who are doctors, dentists, physicians, pharmacists, pathologists, anesthetists and no doubt a few other specialisations, and this topic comes up ALOT in my family. As I'm based in the UK, I also have friends who are also the same.

I have younger cousins who are at university now studying medicine as well.

Overall, I'd say stay in the USA to goto university - some of the regular's here know I'm biased towards the USA (and Canada!) but aside from just that, I still say evaluate as best you can, perhaps come here to the UK and experience things for yourself(ves).

My reasoning is based on my background based in Financials, IT and Small Business. With the amount you'll have to spend as an international student here in the UK - as mentioned already, at one of the universities with a good reputation for medical courses, over perhaps 6+ years - inclusive of the experience year, once you are 'done' you'll have a certain income level from which to begin. That'll be in Pounds of course. Most likely, you'd be employed in the NHS, you'd be very lucky indeed to be able to go private so soon out of academia. This 'starting' salary for a newly qualified Doctor is significantly less than the same level as if you were in the USA. In the UK, the majority of doctors start earning past £45,000 per year at beyond age 40 or so. Depending on your specialisation, salaries can vary, and there are some high for the UK salaries available, but will usually come for those with many years of experience.

Another aspect to think about is that Medical knowledge on the whole, is further advanced in the USA than compared to the UK. Of course, some aspects of UK medicine will be on par and sometimes beyond the US, but it restricted to very specialised sectors and there's enough medical professionals to cover those aspects.

I've mentioned it here on UKY before, I had 2 cousins who were consultant level in India, who were head hunted by the UK's NHS. After working for a year or so, he decided along with his wife to continue studying for entry into the USA medical system. About 8-10 months ago, he gained that and now has moved off to the US - his reasoning being a mixture of what he had to go through, daily working practices of the NHS, ridiculous red tape and medical knowledge along with personal goals.

When a few of the cousins graduate shortly here in a few years, it's most likely they'll do something similar and continue studying for US entry (perhaps Canadian as well).

To counter, some of my friends who are in private practice, are doing very well indeed. One mate a couple years older than me, I think graduated in 94, and by 98 was working in a private setup and has been ever since. I think there are charts and information giving a breakdown of where most medical graduates start off practicing and which end up going into private practice etc.

I know many medical people 'dont do it for the money' however, it's an aspect you can't ignore for yourself and what will most likely, become of your own family later in life. My cousins who moved out of the UK understand completely that whilst their 2 kids are 4 and 1 years old, they don't mind doing double the hours in the USA for quadruple the pay for a portion of their lives, and then cutting back hours as they grow up, perhaps one parent at a time.

A lot to take in, and the above is some personal views, as well as an overview of the UK medical system at a high level comparison to the US one. As I say, you might find it different in your investigations, feedback and direct experience.

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Regardless - do not come to the UK for a year or two of taking A-levels - you don't need them to apply to UK universities - APs are FINE. 

If you are coming to the UK with your family for your senior year, then I would look into going to The American School in London (if there is space) so you can keep up with your US curriculum.

What I would do if I was going into my senior year, would be to try to find someone to talk to about the differences in universities in the US & UK, figure out how much each would cost to get to the "being a doctor" part (neither will be 'cheap') and then go from there.  This is a good convo to have with a college counsellor!