Denial?!

Hi all,

I really dont know what to do now...  My wife has no residency in the US (so cant file there unless we go via a National Service Center with processing of >1yr), and I just called the US Embassy line (09055-444-546) which is THE MOST USELESS line I have ever called.  All they could tell me was "your wife needs a UK visa"...  They couldnt comment on what type of visa, length of time in the UK, etc...  They said I needed to talk to the US Embassy...  At that point I politely asked them who the heck they were - the US Embassy website says that the call center IS them!  Apparently they are just a call center for the US Embassy so have EXACTLY the same info as is on the website!

S.

Emmy, I'm sending you a PM!

My husband visited an immigration lawyer before we ever got married, because at the time he was needing legal advice about a potential job offer. While he was there, he asked about what we'd do in the future to get him into the US. The lawyer suggested that we get married ASAP, move me to England on an FLR visa, and then wait a few months to do the DCF process. He said there isn't anythign written down about timeframes, but - as peedal suggested - they do like to see the US Citizen living in the UK for a while before starting up the process of moving back. As with so much concerning immigration - it's an unwritten thing.

It didn't even occur to me that that might be the problem. And yes - the entire telephone system for the Embassy is CRAP. For every single aspect. Good luck. It often takes several phone calls, and just being a huge pain in the butt about it, and eventually you can get a real person with real information. I also suggest that any contact you have with them, you get it in writing, record whatever you can indluding dates, times etc - - - you're getting totally mixed messages from them and it's completely unfair, I'm so sorry it is happening.

Thanks Marlespro...  I appreciate the help

I just faxed the Consulate again, this time with another photocopy of my wifes passport.  I explained our situation and even explained the short (1 week) gap between LTR and filing (she actually moved over here with me 2 months prior to that - the LTR was just a formality we pursued afterwards).  These unwritten rules are become annoying!

I'll let you guys know what they say...

Thanks!

S.

Hi all,

*sigh*

I received a response from the Consulate.  They are sticking to their original verdict and will not let my wife file in the UK.  I then called the guy up and spoke with him for about 10 minutes.  His basic response was that he didnt care what our circumstances were because she's only been here since June, so her permanent residence MUST be in the US still - even though we dont have any residence there at all!  I explained to him that we originally came here with the idea to settle in England, but was then offered a job by my company in the US, so we discussed it and decided we'd move back there.  He still didnt care.  Basically they made up their mind that we were lying to them and they wont budge.  The fact that we have written proof of all this made no difference.

I asked him how long a US Citizen had to be in the UK to be considered a UK resident.  He had no answer.  He mumbled something about "...  if she had been here 1 or 2 yrs...".  As previously suggested it is an unwritten rule, and all it has done is waste my time and money, and is causing us unbelievable stress.  Here's an extract from the fax he sent me:

"In order to file the I-130 petition with this office, you must meet both of the following prerequisites:

* You must have permission from the home office to reside and work in the United Kingdom; AND
* Your principal's residence must also be in the UK."

I think the confusion here is that the US Consulate has a completely different idea of "principal residence" than anyone else in the World.  I thought principal residence is where you're living right now.

His advice at the end of it was to file in the US.  Since we dont have an address there, he suggested using a relatives address (which I thought would be illegal to tell the USCIS that your permanent residence is in the US when it isnt).  He estimated that a K-3 visa would take 5 months through Chicago and an I-130 would take up to 18 months!  I told him the job offer would not last that long, and he basically didnt care (his attitude was very infuriating, although I did keep my calm with him and was very polite)!

I have done everything that I was asked to do by this US Embassy, all at my own cost, but they neglected to mention this bit of crucial information.  I dont even know if I can get my money back on the International Money Order!

As I'm writing this, I just received another fax from the Consulate...  It's a news release about the introduction of the K-3/K-4 visas.  Well, at least he was thoughtful enough to try and provide us more information.

Anyway, after losing so much time with this method, I'm not sure what else I can do...  I'll keep you all posted as to what happens next... 

Thanks

S.

 :\\\'(

That is absolute CRAP. I can't believe they are doing this to you. They are saying her principle residence isn't in the UK, *despite* having a resident visa. I'm just gobsmacked.

Not much to add at all--except I am thinking of you-- I know this has to be sooo stressful, infuriating, frustrating..etc.

Helena

The USCIS division of the London Embassy is technically only supposed to handle I-130s for US citizens that have been resident in the UK for longer than 3 years but they play fast and loose with this guideline since lots of people don't meet this and still get their visas.
A poster on alt.visas.us.marriage-based researched this with a USCIS officer at the embassy and an AILA attorney based in London.
If I were you I would retain the services of an AILA attorney since they could file a formal complaint and use their case history to remind the Embassy that they do process applications with the US citizen not even resident for a year and even grant visas to them.
I know that I have read of others on that newsgroup who have done the same thing that you have and have received their visas.
Good Luck!

Dittoing the lawyer advice - and thanks for posting that kolc!

Hi all,

Thanks for all your help and advice.  I am consulting a couple of lawyers at the moment, but I am also looking at some alternatives.  For obvious reasons I do not want to file the I-130 in the US (18 month wait!), so I'm currently looking at the much "faster" K-3 route too.  This apparently has a two to six month wait period.

On another note, I really am astonished at the gaul of the US Immigration Authorities...  They really seem to think that being seperated from your loved one, not to mention putting both your lives on hold during the process, is a perfectly normal thing (from the attitude of the Immigration officer I talked to last week).  I'd like to see how they fare if they were put in the same situation - take their spouse away for a few months (or years) and see how they feel!  At least with the UK system it's simple, fast, effective, and doesnt infringe on a basic human right to be with your partner - I mean, how many forms are needed, really?  The UK one is one form, and it asks for everything they need - the US one is like 5 or 6 forms, and they even ask for duplicated details!  I know that they are trying to trace false marriages, but they could still do a better job of it!  It's starting to feel more like a money making scheme - for both USCIS and lawyers!

Thanks

Shash

Hiya Emmy,

Im sorry that you've continued to have trouble with this matter but Im afraid I have to agree with the Embassy's decision. Although there is no hard and fast rule, the guidelines are there and they are pretty clear. From what I gather, you and your spouse went into this KNOWING that you would be attempting to play the system to your advantage, KNOWING that your application would be borderline and, unluckily for you, they caught you out.

Filing by DCF is a prividege - not a right. That priviledge is extended to US citizens who have LIVED here (ie, paid taxes, contributed to society, and experienced the culture). Being here physically for 2 months is hardly LIVING here and I am not surprised they rejected the petition.

As I see it you have several roads open to you -

1) Send your spouse back to the US and petition from the US Service Centres. Youre likely to face a 6  month + wait until you can be together again.

or

2) Stay together in the UK and wait 6 months then try the petition through DCF again. At least you'll be together over those months and its likely that they will look more favourably on the petition the second time round as your spouse would have had time to actually ESTABLISH genuine residency in the UK. It would look a lot less like an attempt to twist and play the system to your advantage.

The Embassy just does not allow applications from people who got married and appied for leave to remain with the intention of using DCF to go straight back to the US so as to avoid the seperation and long waiting times one must face with US Based applications.

Because the LTR hadnt been held very long, the application looks very much like an attempt to get around the system. If the embassy allowed that kind system-skirting they would likely be faced with thousands upon thousands of applications from people who have never really LIVED in the UK. The only way to prevent that kind of DCF misuse is to judge each application on a case by case basis. If you look at your case logically (not emotionally) the proof of genuine UK residency is just not there, thus causing them to deny the application. If you wait several months longer you'll probably have much better luck.

Best wishes for the future,
Sarah

Hi Sarah,

The thing that annoys me ISN'T that they denied the application - it's that they were asked BEFORE my wife and I went back to the US to get the LTR and they said it would not be a problem.  Not only did I ask, but my lawyers asked too.  Only after we got back and applied did they reject it thus wasting our time and money.  There are no written requirements ANYWHERE that state this arbitrary period, and I even asked for opinions on this forum before doing it, and everyone agreed this was a viable option.

Also, in no way or form did I EVER say we went into this "knowing" that we were going back to the US, and we were NOT playing the system.  We came here with the intention to settle in the UK, but then subsequent to that a position with my company came up in California, and I was offered it.  At that point we started to look into the process.  To me it was simply an option that was available in my home country, and I wanted to use it (and as far as I knew, it was a viable one).  Of course I did not want to be seperated from my partner and frankly I dont see what right the US Immigration Authorities have to deny one of their own citizens a basic human right.  She is 100% dependent on me so how on Earth is she supposed to wait around in the US for months?  Do they expect us to keep up two households for the simple reason that they dont think she's a "proper" resident here?  What do the United States DHS care if my wife has paid UK taxes, contributed to UK society and experienced UK culture?  Besides, since she does not work, I would still be only one paying UK taxes, and believe me, I pay thousands...

Most people agree that the U.S. Immigration system is unnecessarily long winded, complicated, mis-informed, and expensive.  I'm sorry if I have offended you (from your harsh words) by trying to, in your eyes, circumvent a "privilege" that you think I do not deserve...  However, I dont think that allowing such an application would open the floodgates for thousands of people applying here.  Getting an LTR is not that easy, and it'd only be open to US Citizens married to British Citizens who can support them in the UK and have a physical permanent residence.  No-one else.  Also, the Consulate has been known to process I-130's for people that don't even have an LTR!  Where's the fairness there...?

My biggest problem with the US Consulate is that they are not consistant.  Why not put on their site "US Citizens that have resided in the UK for less than 1 year should not apply unless exceptional circumstances can be proven"?  That would have saved a lot of problems!

Thanks,

S.

Emmy, I don't think Sarah was saying that you're trying to get around the rules.  What she's saying is that it LOOKS like you're trying to get around the rules.  A consular officer doesn't know you or your situation.  He just looks at your paper and see that your wife got her LTR and turned around and started the DCF process a week later.  On paper, it looks like you guys got married and your wife moved to the UK just so she could use DCF and save several months of waiting and being separated.  I'm not saying that's what you did, but that's what it looks like, and the consular officer can't be blamed for the decision.

I do agree that the rules need to be clearer and things need to be consistent.  BUT, that said, I think that the consulate would assume that those going for DCF within weeks of obtaining LTR would be trying to circumvent the system.  Maybe the best thing would be for there to be a six-month or one year limit  before one can start the DCF process....I dunno....

Realistically, though, you have two options---those Sarah outlined for you.  It's, of course, up to the two of you to decide what's best for you and I really hope you can get things worked out as soon as possible with as little hassle as possible! 

lola said it - thank you, lola.

Hi Sarah,

Sorry if I got the wrong idea - your first paragraph seemed to accuse me of foul play:

"From what I gather, you and your spouse went into this KNOWING that you would be attempting to play the system to your advantage, KNOWING that your application would be borderline and, unluckily for you, they caught you out."

After all of the events in the last few days, I'm (I hope understandably!) a little on edge...  Ever feel like you're going nowhere fast?

Thanks!

S.