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Topic: 'Zero Hour Contract'?  (Read 5693 times)

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'Zero Hour Contract'?
« on: April 10, 2013, 11:37:13 AM »
So, this means you work for them, but for no set hours... Could be one hour a week, or 40 hours a week, and you get no paid holidays, and no sick pay, and they can stop employing you at any moment, for any reason, with no warning, and with no severance pay, but if you want time off, you need to get it pre-approved?

How is that even legal here? I thought all employees had certain rights. Including 20-something holidays off, paid, every year...

As my Latina mom would say... 'Splain me dat!?

Many thanks!
L.
“It was when I realised I had a new nationality: I was in exile. I am an adulterous resident: when I am in one city, I am dreaming of the other. I am an exile; citizen of the country of longing.” ― Suketu Mehta.

Married 04/13/11, in NYC.
Applied for Spouse Visa the following week, with express service, and I was approved 4 days later!
Arrived in the UK 05/20/11.
I took the stupid LIUK Test Oct. 2012.
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Got BRP 2 days later, in mail box - it just appeared.

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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2013, 11:59:25 AM »
Oh, are these the jobs the government has created? Not surprised.  ::)

Did you read this article, LaraMascara?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/apr/02/rise-staff-zero-hour-contracts


Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2013, 12:01:44 PM »
I've been on a Zero Hour contact before, it's fine. Worked really well for my circumstances at the time. It doesn't affect your employee rights aside from termination (but then you gain rights here as well, it's a trade off)

When I had one I worked shop work and my shifts would change depending on season and what the other guys were doing, so basically I'd do whatever hours I wanted to, therefore it fit in fantastically around university as it meant I could not work certain days, swap with the other employees, take loads of time off for exams, or work loads in the holidays without causing any issues.

You are still entitled to holiday on a zero hour contract, but you normally accrue a small % per hour you actually work (based on your last 12 weeks) and then you get paid it as a lump sum. So every quarter I'd get a fat pay check which had my holiday allowance in it based on how many hours I'd worked in the last 12 weeks.

Some employers include the holiday pay in the hourly rate, if that's what your employer is doing it should be specified in the contract.

On the termination side, it works both ways, a zero hour contract allows the employer to reduce your hours to zero at any time, but also allows you to refuse work at any time, so if you wake up one day and decide to quit you never have to go in again. No notice period etc.

At the end of the day, it's supposed to be a more informal way of working, if you don't want to sign it, don't. It worked great for me, but it's all about your personal circumstances, I can imagine if I had a kid or something it would be brilliant.


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2013, 12:06:19 PM »
I actually think it's quite a good idea - but then I've only seen 'no hours contracts' being used for university students who are only available to work during the vacations. It allows the student to keep their job, even when they cannot work, and they can come back to work when they are available without having to re-apply for their job.

The way it worked at my company was that the student was employed on, say, 37-hour-a-week contract for the summer. Then, when they had to go back to university, they were put on a nil hours contract, so they were still kept on the payroll but had no obligation to work any hours.

When the university term finished, they returned to the company and were either put back on a full or part-time contract for the vacation period, or they just worked the odd shift here and there when they were needed. Then when they left, they were put down to nil hours again.

I was put on a nil hours contract once - I was in two minds about whether or not to move back to the UK from the US, so for insurance, I got my old job back while I was home for a visit. Because I was still technically living in the US, I couldn't go back to work right away, so I was put on 'nil hours' until I was sure that I was moving home.

When I did move back home, they took me off 'nil hours' and put me on a permanent full-time contract instead... and if I hadn't moved back, I would have needed to resign and they would have terminated the contract. The main reason for doing it that way was because they were about to change the job application process and there was no guarantee that I would even get through the online sift, despite working for them for 7 years and being re-employed by them several times when I was a student.


Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 01:08:26 PM »
This strikes me as similar to when I temped in the US as I wasn't guaranteed work, accrued holiday pay at snail's pace, and had little to no benefits.

Its the employee's choice though, no one is ever forced to accept these conditions.


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2013, 01:34:56 PM »
It’s not so much the existence of Zero Hour Contracts that bothers me. As ksand has said, it works for students. It’s the rise in Zero Hour Contracts in an economy where there are tons of people who are desperate for work that bothers me. I worry that this kind of casual work will replace contracts where you are guaranteed a certain amount of hours because that is what suits a corporation’s pocket book.  Also, I don’t think it’s fair to say, “It’s the employee’s choice though, no one is ever forced to accept these conditions.” In an economy like this, many people will accept conditions they never would have considered years ago just to be considered employed.


Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2013, 02:31:55 PM »
It’s not so much the existence of Zero Hour Contracts that bothers me. As ksand has said, it works for students. It’s the rise in Zero Hour Contracts in an economy where there are tons of people who are desperate for work that bothers me. I worry that this kind of casual work will replace contracts where you are guaranteed a certain amount of hours because that is what suits a corporation’s pocket book.  Also, I don’t think it’s fair to say, “It’s the employee’s choice though, no one is ever forced to accept these conditions.” In an economy like this, many people will accept conditions they never would have considered years ago just to be considered employed.

As an employer, a Zero Hour Contract might allow me to hire someone where I wouldn't normally though, that's the point. You have no idea how many roles wouldn't exist at all without ZHC and the employer will "make do" without someone as they can't commit to a permanent position with a set number of hours.

If the Government actually wanted to do anything about this kind of thing they'd reduce employer's national insurance contributions for small businesses which are through the roof at the moment, we'd love to raise wages but everything ends up costing us double, and our staff don't see the true benefit of the extra money we're paying.

Also, yes the economy is bad, mostly because of inflation, and pay restraint by employers (no raises, raises below the rate of inflation increasing cost of living)  but there are actually more people employed at the moment then ever before in the last quarter of 2012 the UK reached record employment levels and the % of people who are unemployed fell to 7.5%, in terms of adults employed that's the highest levels since records began in the early 70s and vacancies have technically risen.

If ZHC are helping that, then I'm actually all for it, it depends on the person and the circumstance but I had a great experience on one, and if I had other commitments like a baby, I'd really like to have one again. I'm sure there's lots of people in the situation where they'd like to take time off during half term because of wages vs child care etc.

To say "If you don't like it, don't put up with it" os not an unfair thing, it's actually perfectly fair, it's a trade off, you get certain benefits, the employer gets certain benefits, you decide if you want them or if you want to remain unemployed or work somewhere else. Just because the other choice (i.e to remain unemployed) is less palatable doesn't make the choice unfair, just not an ideal situation for the chooser.

What if the choice is ZHC or no job offered at all? Where's the fairness then? If a ZHC creates a job an employer wouldn't otherwise have been able to create, then it is a good thing.


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, 02:43:37 PM »
... it depends on the person and the circumstance ...

{snip}

... it's actually perfectly fair, it's a trade off, you get certain benefits, the employer gets certain benefits, you decide if you want them or if you want to remain unemployed or work somewhere else.

Exactly.  I work freelance, and one of the places I work for has a similar contract.  The only things guaranteed by the contract are how much I get paid and what work I do when I work for them.  They're not obligated to provide any work, and I'm not obligated to work for them if I don't want to.  The contract protects me in case they don't pay, or pay less than we agreed, and it protects them in case I try to claim I'm an employee, or that they owe me a salary.

The arrangement works for me because I get bored doing the same job all the time, and like having control of my own schedule.  It works for them because they don't have to pay someone to sit around if there's no work to be done.

I realize this arrangement wouldn't work for everyone, but it's not unfair by any means.



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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, 03:05:25 PM »
Also, yes the economy is bad, mostly because of inflation, and pay restraint by employers

The economy is bad because this Government has made ideological austerity the basis of their economic platform.

Keynesian economics have only been shown to fail during times of extreme inflation.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2013, 03:06:51 PM »
Too, we have never addressed the issues causing the continuing finacial colapse.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2013, 05:42:02 PM »
This woman is not a student.
She has been working for this company for almost 3 years.
On a zero hour contract, with no holiday pay, and no sick pay.
She needs the job.
She has applied for a salary position with the company, doing exactly what she is doing, same job, three times in three years, and they have not hired her on as an employee.
She does a great job.

She asked for a week off, and they told her no, because they might need her for a few hours on Wed.

 ???

“It was when I realised I had a new nationality: I was in exile. I am an adulterous resident: when I am in one city, I am dreaming of the other. I am an exile; citizen of the country of longing.” ― Suketu Mehta.

Married 04/13/11, in NYC.
Applied for Spouse Visa the following week, with express service, and I was approved 4 days later!
Arrived in the UK 05/20/11.
I took the stupid LIUK Test Oct. 2012.
We were granted ILR In Person in Croydon on 04/23/13.
Got BRP 2 days later, in mail box - it just appeared.

NEXT: The lil' red passpo


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2013, 05:48:41 PM »
If she hasn't, she needs to join the appropriate union.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2013, 06:03:24 PM »
What union?

The 'Zero Hour Contract' union?
“It was when I realised I had a new nationality: I was in exile. I am an adulterous resident: when I am in one city, I am dreaming of the other. I am an exile; citizen of the country of longing.” ― Suketu Mehta.

Married 04/13/11, in NYC.
Applied for Spouse Visa the following week, with express service, and I was approved 4 days later!
Arrived in the UK 05/20/11.
I took the stupid LIUK Test Oct. 2012.
We were granted ILR In Person in Croydon on 04/23/13.
Got BRP 2 days later, in mail box - it just appeared.

NEXT: The lil' red passpo


Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2013, 06:10:20 PM »
Well her employer are likely in breach of her contract (would need to see what specifics she agreed to) and UK employment law then.

That's not the fault of the ZHC, but of the employer and she should find out what her rights are and make a decision about whether she wants to do anything about it.

No, nearly every profession has a union or more than one , she needs to find her official union who may be able to offer her free legal support, here's a list - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trade_unions#United_Kingdom


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Re: 'Zero Hour Contract'?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2013, 06:29:44 PM »
Thank you!

I will pass it along to her.

She is a great employee. She is the one employee that I totally know that I can ALWAYS count on, no matter what, to do her job well.

I'm sad she is in this position. I want to help her, if I can.
“It was when I realised I had a new nationality: I was in exile. I am an adulterous resident: when I am in one city, I am dreaming of the other. I am an exile; citizen of the country of longing.” ― Suketu Mehta.

Married 04/13/11, in NYC.
Applied for Spouse Visa the following week, with express service, and I was approved 4 days later!
Arrived in the UK 05/20/11.
I took the stupid LIUK Test Oct. 2012.
We were granted ILR In Person in Croydon on 04/23/13.
Got BRP 2 days later, in mail box - it just appeared.

NEXT: The lil' red passpo


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