New to UKYankee - Visa expired, back stateside

*This is a really long post but I had to get it off my chest. I hope you all don't mind.*

I have just come back stateside after having the opportunity of a lifetime. The experience of living abroad, as most of you know, is priceless and not shared by the majority of our peers. I suppose everyone has different experiences along the way; however, I also know there’s no way one cannot be affected by such an experience in one way or another.  


During my 3 ½ years living in London I discovered so much about myself, the world around me, and where I fit into it. It was a liberating experience to say the least. I’ve never felt so free, happy, and at peace with myself and the world. It was almost like being reborn in a way, a brand new life, perhaps like a parallel universe. For some reason, ever since my first trip to the UK 6 years ago, I felt at “home”. There was just a connection I felt with England instantly. I felt more at home there than I ever did in the USA, aka my “home”. I just fit in with the lifestyle, the mind-set, and culture. This became evident the longer I was overseas and upon coming back stateside recently.


I love that city more than anything in the world and there are no words to describe this feeling and connection, unless some of you can relate. I’ve done my fair share of traveling across Europe and the states; however, London was just perfect for me. Having to leave London was forced, as in my student visa expired. I am now trying to figure out how to break up with London, for it feels like a forced divorce with the love of your life. Dramatic, yes probably, but it definitely feels that deep to me.

I’ve never really been one for depression, usually pretty positive, but these past 3 months have been one of the lowest periods for me. Some days I’m fine but others consist of a huge void within, or a hole in my heart…it just consumes me. I think the biggest factor for this is the fact that it was forced, the fact that I am helpless and have no control over the situation. If I knew I could move back to London freely anytime I wished, then I wouldn’t feel as bad as I do now. Knowing that it’s nearly impossible to ever live in the city I love and connect with again completely shatters my soul. It just really seems unfair and cruel.


I’ve been lucky enough to have friends take me in in NYC. Though this city has helped me transition, well it just doesn’t have the same feeling or connection as London did, nowhere else has or probably ever will. Don’t get me wrong. I do like this city a lot and it’s great to have amazing friends here, diversity, and a 24/7 subway, but something is just missing. I guess it’s just me wanting it to be London and it’s not and never will be. This also leads me to the next topic…


Since being back I’ve noticed I’ve changed a lot and people here at “home” can’t relate. I don’t really feel 100% American anymore and I definitely look and feel differently about this country. I feel part American and part British, even though I am far from that. I guess what I’m trying to say is I feel like a foreigner in my “own country”. I know this probably sounds strange to some of you if not all of you.

 
It’s hard to not share these recent life changing experiences that have basically defined who I am today. Problem is nobody really wants to hear much about it. It either comes off as bragging or annoying. At first people tolerate it a bit, but the longer you’re here the less people want to know. It seems they want you to just to blend right back in as if nothing happened.  I find myself not wanting to “adapt” back fully and give up the britishisms that I’ve acquired. Basically I don’t want to let go of London yet and I know to fully move past it I will have to. I love the culture I just came from, real football, English pubs, the drinking culture, the history, words, phrases, slang, etc., and I don’t want to give it up, I like it so much better. I guess I just need to go through the motions and over time things will fade a bit. For the record I don’t go on talking about London all day every day and I do hold back a lot more than I used to, but mentally it’s all there and fresh.


Part of me sometimes wishes I had never lived overseas, although if I had the option to do it all over again I would in a heartbeat. I say that because living overseas is almost as much of a blessing as it is a curse. You learn so much about yourself and the world, make new friends and connections from around the globe and much more. Of course that is all positive, but now I feel so far from my home country and I will never been able to look at it, or feel the same way as I did before leaving. Sure this can be good as well but just as equally bad in ways. I heard someone on an expat forum say “you’ll always have one foot in and one foot out from this point on” and I fear this to be true. The fear of never truly being content in one place or another again, or simply me just never being able to feel as happy again as I was when I lived in London.

 
I wish the UK wasn’t so tight on immigration and or the US and the UK had some sort of exchange programs, (youth mobility scheme) or at least were more relaxed in terms of UK and US citizens living and working in each other’s countries. We’re supposed to be greatest allies, right? The UK has virtually made it impossible for outsiders these days. Every year is more difficult. When I first started studying post study work was my plan, well I just missed out on that. It seems I just keep missing out due to new yearly rules and restrictions. Even the tier 2 route has become extremely difficult and continues becoming more difficult each year. You’ve got to be rich, a student (did that), marry a citizen, super highly skilled/extremely established, or very well connected to even stand a chance. I’m just beyond frustrated, for all I want to do is live in the city I love and pay my taxes, yet for some reason I’m not allowed to do so. Thank you all for letting me get this off my chest, it helps somewhat.  

I'm sorry to hear you're having such a hard time, LondonLove. I wish I could swap with you!

You are right that living abroad changes you permanently and you will never be exactly the same person who always lived in one country. Right now you are experiencing some bad aspects of that. I hope in the future you will experience more good aspects.

And of course, I agree with you that there should be more mobility.

I know you're having a hard time with the UK"s immigration policy, but do be aware its just as hard for anyone to immigrate into the USA.

I hope you'll find a way to pursue your dreams, perhaps having a long term plan of study, relevant experience and aiming for employment with an international organization might help?

I know how you feel LondonLove, my wife and I were having a similar conversation again today.  In our case it is not London but a small market town in N. Yorkshire where we lived for 6 years, '79 - '85.  Neither of us came from Yorkshire but we loved the place and both our children were born there.  We have lived in various places in England, Scotland, Texas and Louisiana but all our fondest memories are from that time and we still have quite a few good friends still living there.

Once retired we decided to "get it out of our system" and we rented a house for 7 months in 2011.  However, nothing much had changed with the place and we enjoyed meeting up regularly with our friends again, pubs and countryside a short walk away.  Now the longing the return is even stronger than it ever was, but our children live in the US and our son in particular would be very hard to leave.

My sister has even moved there this year and she says she feels like she has won the lottery as she and her husband and son absolutely love the place.

In the grand scheme of things such problems as this are quite small, and we are so very fortunate to have the resources to be able to visit quite often.

Thank you all for reading my long post and replying. Probably not the best forum for this sort of topic, for many on here are married and living in the UK, or so it seems.

CandyAnn, I wish I could trade too! lol.

FruitGum, yes I am aware the USA is just as hard; however, I'm pretty sure US graduates are able to work after graduation. The UK offered that and changed that on me while I was already studying in the UK. I missed that cutoff by 2 months, lucky me! I still don't think those rules should have applied to those already studying at that time.

Durhamlad, thanks for sharing your story and experience. I hope you are able to get back for good one day.

The worst part is not having any control over the situation. I wouldn't mind a year or 2 in the USA if I could move back whenever I wanted, must be nice! If I could trade my US passport I probably would. I just really feel I'll never fully get over London and always long for a place I cannot have. Thanks again for the the replies!

Sorry to hear that you're missing the UK .

It seems I just keep missing out due to new yearly rules and restrictions. Even the tier 2 route has become extremely difficult and continues becoming more difficult each year.

Actually it's much EASIER to qualify for Tier 2 if you have a degree from a UK university, as long as you are still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa when you apply.

The two biggest hurdles for qualifying for a Tier 2 visa are:

- the job being on the skills shortage list
or
- passing the resident labour market test.

However, if you have a degree from a UK university and you are still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa when you apply, the resident labour market test does not have to be passed.

From UKBA:

You do not need to complete a resident labour market test if the migrant currently has permission to stay in the UK under:

-    Tier 1 (Post-study work);
-    the International Graduates Scheme;
-    the Fresh Talent Working in Scotland Scheme;
-    the Science and Engineering Graduates Scheme;
-    Tier 4 as a student and they have received final results confirming that they have passed and will be (or have been) awarded a UK recognised bachelor's or master's degree;
-    a UK Postgraduate Certificate in Education, or
-    they have completed a minimum of 12 months study in the UK towards a UK PhD.

and from the Tier 2 policy guidance:

Tier 4 students/previous student categories

93. You will be awarded 30 points if you have a Certificate of Sponsorship and are applying to switch into Tier 2 (General) and you have or or were last granted entry clearance, leave to enter or remain as a:
• Tier 4;
• Student;
• Student Nurse;
• Student Re-Sitting an Examination;
• Person Writing Up a Thesis;
• Postgraduate Doctor or Dentist;
• Overseas Qualified Nurse or Midwife;
• Student Union Sabbatical Officer.

AND YOU MUST MEET ALL OF THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS (FURTHER DETAILS OF WHICH ARE GIVEN BELOW):
• you have successfully completed and passed a UK recognised bachelor’s or master’s degree; or UK Postgraduate Certificate in Education (PGCE) or Professional Graduate Diploma of Education (PGDE); or you have completed a minimum of 12 months study in the UK towards a UK PhD during your last grant of leave or period of continuous leave which includes your last grant of leave; and
• your period of study and/or research towards your award was undertaken whilst you had entry clearance, leave to enter or leave to remain in the UK and you were not subject to a restriction preventing you from undertaking a course of study and/or research; and
• you studied for the eligible award at a UK institution that is a UK recognised or listed body, or holds a sponsor licence under Tier 4 of the Points-Based System; and
• you are applying from inside the UK.

Your sponsor will be exempt from undertaking a resident labour market test. Please note your application to switch will be refused if you do not meet all of the above requirements, even if your sponsor has chosen to conduct a resident labour market test.

So, if you were awarded with a UK degree and you had been able to get a UK job offer before your visa expired, you could have qualified for Tier 2 without having to overcome the usual hurdles, providing the job paid at least £20,300 per year.

Unfortunately because you have already left the UK, you will now have to pass the resident labour market test, or find a job on the skills shortage list, in order to get a Tier 2 visa, as the exemption only applied while you were still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa.

However, you could go back to the UK to study for a 12-months masters degree, a 12-month PGCE or at least 12 months of a PhD, and then apply for a Tier 2 visa from within the UK while you are still on your Tier 4 visa.

Sorry to hear that you're missing the UK .

Actually it's much EASIER to qualify for Tier 2 if you have a degree from a UK university, as long as you are still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa when you apply.

The two biggest hurdles for qualifying for a Tier 2 visa are:

- the job being on the skills shortage list
or
- passing the resident labour market test.

However, if you have a degree from a UK university and you are still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa when you apply, the resident labour market test does not have to be passed.

From UKBA:

and from the Tier 2 policy guidance:

So, if you were awarded with a UK degree and you had been able to get a UK job offer before your visa expired, you could have qualified for Tier 2 without having to overcome the usual hurdles, providing the job paid at least £20,300 per year.

Unfortunately because you have already left the UK, you will now have to pass the resident labour market test, or find a job on the skills shortage list, in order to get a Tier 2 visa, as the exemption only applied while you were still in the UK on a Tier 4 visa.

However, you could go back to the UK to study for a 12-months masters degree, a 12-month PGCE or at least 12 months of a PhD, and then apply for a Tier 2 visa from within the UK while you are still on your Tier 4 visa.

Hello KSand and thank you for your response. Even if I wanted to go back and do a masters, I've already accumulated enough debt for a lifetime with undergrad in the UK. It's  a shame they canceled PSW while I was already there studying. That really messed things up.

Another problem with tier 2 is they raise the level from NQF level 4 to level 6. Even though I am in IT, which is very technical, my job role falls under level 4. It seems only manager type of level jobs qualify for level 6, unless you're in the creative sector. That really doesn't make sense to me. Got a degree in the UK and my job role can't even be sponsored anymore because of that. Another example of clamping down.

Isn't the labour market test just a formality though? Companies can generally hire who they want I've been told.

I looked before leaving the UK, had interviews, problem is nobody wants to hire and sponsor when they don't have to do this with UK/EU citizens, and not that I could because of the level 4 to 6 jump, and salary. You either have to be very well established in your career and or have a lot of connections to pull strings. Basically for someone like me, it's virtually impossible.

Hello KSand and thank you for your response. Even if I wanted to go back and do a masters, I've already accumulated enough debt for a lifetime with undergrad in the UK. It's  a shame they canceled PSW while I was already there studying. That really messed things up.

What if you did a UK Masters in IT / Business by distance? Would that increase any visa chances?

http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/courses/search/?filters=tid%3A559%20tid%3A553&solrsort=sort_title%20asc

http://prospects.ac.uk/search_courses.htm

MBAs
http://www.bradford.ac.uk/management/programmes/mba/distance-learning-mba/distance-learning-mba/
http://www.wbs.ac.uk/courses/mba/distance-learning/
http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/online-mba-listing-2013

Another problem with tier 2 is they raise the level from NQF level 4 to level 6. Even though I am in IT, which is very technical, my job role falls under level 4. It seems only manager type of level jobs qualify for level 6, unless you're in the creative sector. That really doesn't make sense to me. Got a degree in the UK and my job role can't even be sponsored anymore because of that. Another example of clamping down.

As far as I can see, the level 4 to level 6 rise only applies to jobs on the skills shortage list. That is only one way to qualify for Tier 2... if the job role is on the skills shortage list then you don't have to meet the Resident Market Labour test.

If the job role is a lower level than those on the skills shortage list or it is in a profession that is not in demand (it's not on the list), then you need to pass the resident labour market test in order to be sponsored for a visa.

If you are in the UK on a Tier 4 visa and you have a UK degree, then you can skip both the skill shortage list AND the resident labour market test. The UK company can employ you anyway even if the job is not level 6 and is not on the list as long as you meet the salary requirement and all the other requirements.

Isn't the labour market test just a formality though? Companies can generally hire who they want I've been told.

No, it's not just a formality - it's one of the barriers put in place to stop people from outside the EU from being able to get a work visa.

In order for a company to hire someone for a job not on the skills shortage list, they have to advertise the position across the UK and then across the EU for a certain period of time, and they have to prove that there is no one out of all 500 million people in the EU who is suitable for the job before they are allowed to hire you.

Or, if you are in the UK on a Tier 4 visa, with a UK degree, they are exempt from having to do this.

I looked before leaving the UK, had interviews, problem is nobody wants to hire and sponsor when they don't have to do this with UK/EU citizens, and not that I could because of the level 4 to 6 jump, and salary. You either have to be very well established in your career and or have a lot of connections to pull strings. Basically for someone like me, it's virtually impossible.

I feel your pain. It took me 2 years to find a graduate job in the recession (2008-2010) and I'm a UK citizen so I don't need visa sponsorship. Problem was, the companies only had vacancies for job roles that were much higher up than my qualifications (they were job roles on the skills shortage list) and so they required a PhD and/or 10 years of experience in the field.

Eventually I found a job, but for 2 years I was stuck working in retail for just above minimum wage, despite having masters degrees in scientific fields.

As far as I can see, the level 4 to level 6 rise only applies to jobs on the skills shortage list. That is only one way to qualify for Tier 2... if the job role is on the skills shortage list then you don't have to meet the Resident Market Labour test.

If the job role is a lower level than those on the skills shortage list or it is in a profession that is not in demand (it's not on the list), then you need to pass the resident labour market test in order to be sponsored for a visa.

If you are in the UK on a Tier 4 visa and you have a UK degree, then you can skip both the skill shortage list AND the resident labour market test. The UK company can employ you anyway even if the job is not level 6 and is not on the list as long as you meet the salary requirement and all the other requirements.

No, it's not just a formality - it's one of the barriers put in place to stop people from outside the EU from being able to get a work visa.

In order for a company to hire someone for a job not on the skills shortage list, they have to advertise the position across the UK and then across the EU for a certain period of time, and they have to prove that there is no one out of all 500 million people in the EU who is suitable for the job before they are allowed to hire you.

Or, if you are in the UK on a Tier 4 visa, with a UK degree, they are exempt from having to do this.

I feel your pain. It took me 2 years to find a graduate job in the recession (2008-2010) and I'm a UK citizen so I don't need visa sponsorship. Problem was, the companies only had vacancies for job roles that were much higher up than my qualifications (they were job roles on the skills shortage list) and so they required a PhD and/or 10 years of experience in the field.

Eventually I found a job, but for 2 years I was stuck working in retail for just above minimum wage, despite having masters degrees in scientific fields.

Want to get married!? lol jk.

Thanks again for your reply. The idea of a masters, going back to school, nah can't do that! I need to work and pay off this newly acquired student loan debt. Even if I wanted to study again, which I don't, I simply couldn't afford another 20k of debt on top of my massive pile already, just not practical. Thanks for trying to help, because realistically that's the only way it appears.

Level 4 can only be sponsored for shortage list, and those in the creative sector, also for those who had level 4 jobs before the new rules this year came into effect. Being a student only makes you exempt from labour market and immigration cap, not the NQF level. A friend of mine did the tier 4 to 6 switch and it had to be a level 6 job. Again, it's just another way your government is clamping down.

My visa is expired and I am in the USA; however, I tried for months to get hired. I had interviews but nobody took me on. I think one or two companies were very interested but just couldn't afford to sponsor me. Even know you're exempt from a few things, my job isn't NQF 6 and they would have to lie about it in order to make it work, not only that but it costs them  a lot of money to take on a non EU/UK worker. Unless you're really top notch and connected, I don't see they would take you on when they can find a citizen for less.

I just can't believe all the restrictions every year, it's like every option I look or looked into has been taken away or made even harder for me. I know a few people in a company and I've talked to them recently, however, they can't justify the cost of sponsoring me, so it looks like I've just got to learn to deal with this, and or block it out. Thanks though.

A working holiday in Ireland as an alternative? Though the job market is supposed to be tight there....

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=80991

What is your ethnic ancestry? Any EU / EEA countries?

A working holiday in Ireland as an alternative? Though the job market is supposed to be tight there....

http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=80991 [nofollow]

What is your ethnic ancestry? Any EU / EEA countries?

Thanks Maple! I actually searched my ancestry the other day but unfortunately for me, it's way too many generations back!! If only I were so lucky! I have also considered Ireland as well and perhaps may look into that.

I may have a small chance of a tier 2 if I pay all the legal fees for the company to sponsor...that could take awhile. Even so that would be a gamble, for I'm not sure if the labour market is a serious problem or just a little easily bypassed formality.

I just want to work, pay my taxes, and live happily in the city I love, why does this have to be so difficult! If only I could trade my passport in for another!!

Or indeed any ties to a Commonwealth country for a working holiday visa or Right of Abode?

Is BUNAC a possibility?  Are you within 6 months of graduation?  That would at least buy you 6 months there - enough time to get a livable job and see what you can hustle for long term.

Your story resonated with me as I am also/have been in the same position and a lot of your feelings are what I have felt for a long time.  I never did a formal uni course in the UK, but I did do the UK bf, the BUNAC thing, lived there for almost a year, and it seems like since I left in 2000 I have spent the last 14 years trying to get back permanently because that was the only place that felt really right to me.  Had a HSMP visa application turned down, wrote my thesis on UK topics, work for a half british company now, and it was always just out of my reach.  The last 7 years we have "toughed it out" in the US for my partner's visa/citizenship standing in the US.  In the end I am going back the old fashioned way, with an EU partner (at least he also wants to live in London more than move back to his home country!)

Looking back, as painful as it was to always be wishing for something else, for moving now I am in FAR better shape than I would have been in 2005 had I gotten the visa, or in 2007 had we moved then on EEA (thank GOD we didn't).  I have work connections, a recognizable brand name on my resume, better savings, a fledgling consulting biz, and more professionalism that will get me further than had I gone earlier.  You can't tell what the future will bring, but regardless of all the seemingly impossible roadblocks now, a path could eventually open up in a number of years - when you may be in a better place to take advantage of it.  You don't have to banish your dreams and hopes from your heart, and I know it can be difficult to deal with, but focus now on doing what you can to move yourself forward where you currently are to what you want in the future.

BTW - you are certainly lucky to be in NYC!  Lots more international companies and more expats and such a short flight!  I did the 10+ hour haul from LAX for many years.  A few years ago I had to fly from JFK to LHR and it was absolutely nothing - with the winds I think we made it in under 5 hours.  That was utterly mind blowing to me.

Is BUNAC a possibility?  Are you within 6 months of graduation?  That would at least buy you 6 months there - enough time to get a livable job and see what you can hustle for long term.

Your story resonated with me as I am also/have been in the same position and a lot of your feelings are what I have felt for a long time.  I never did a formal uni course in the UK, but I did do the UK bf, the BUNAC thing, lived there for almost a year, and it seems like since I left in 2000 I have spent the last 14 years trying to get back permanently because that was the only place that felt really right to me.  Had a HSMP visa application turned down, wrote my thesis on UK topics, work for a half british company now, and it was always just out of my reach.  The last 7 years we have "toughed it out" in the US for my partner's visa/citizenship standing in the US.  In the end I am going back the old fashioned way, with an EU partner (at least he also wants to live in London more than move back to his home country!)

Looking back, as painful as it was to always be wishing for something else, for moving now I am in FAR better shape than I would have been in 2005 had I gotten the visa, or in 2007 had we moved then on EEA (thank GOD we didn't).  I have work connections, a recognizable brand name on my resume, better savings, a fledgling consulting biz, and more professionalism that will get me further than had I gone earlier.  You can't tell what the future will bring, but regardless of all the seemingly impossible roadblocks now, a path could eventually open up in a number of years - when you may be in a better place to take advantage of it.  You don't have to banish your dreams and hopes from your heart, and I know it can be difficult to deal with, but focus now on doing what you can to move yourself forward where you currently are to what you want in the future.

BTW - you are certainly lucky to be in NYC!  Lots more international companies and more expats and such a short flight!  I did the 10+ hour haul from LAX for many years.  A few years ago I had to fly from JFK to LHR and it was absolutely nothing - with the winds I think we made it in under 5 hours.  That was utterly mind blowing to me.

Thanks for the response. Bunac wouldn't be worth it now a days. It's only a 6month visa and you have to leave the country after to apply for another visa, as in no switching to a tier 2 work visa. They also opened up a 12 month tier 5 program for students but again no switching, so I would have to leave the UK. I can't afford to be jumping all around, very costly and annoying. It would have to be tier 2.

It's nice to see you feel/felt similar to me. It is almost an overbearing feeling. I'm stuck between two worlds basically and the only way to fully adjust is to let go of the one I don't want to let go of.

I'm sorry to hear your struggle and it actually scares me to hear that!! When are you guys moving to London? Will that be difficult visa wise since he is from the EU and not the UK? So many obstacles and hurdles in the way! Just gets worse every year it seems, unreal!

My plan for now is to accept a job offer and save up for a few months. If I save up enough for the legal visa fees a company said they would send in the application for tier 2; however, will see if that still stands in 6 months time. Again also not sure how this Labour Market Test will work. It could screw me over big time!

You're right, being in NYC helps, but it's not London. It hasn't been great though because I've been unemployed and broke. Hopefully accepting this job will make things more bearable and hopefully in a few months I'll able to get a tier 2. A lot of uncertainty ahead of me! It seems I've been living with uncertainty for years!