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Topic: Is Trump for real?  (Read 6130 times)

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Is Trump for real?
« on: December 10, 2015, 11:46:08 AM »
I know this could all be about protest at this point....

But is Donald Trump really leading by this sort of margin?

It's amazing.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_presidential_nomination-3823.html
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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2015, 03:16:44 PM »
Without having the time to do too much analysis, I'm hoping those poll results are mostly before his extreme anti Muslim pronouncement.  I can't imagine he'd be that high afterwards.

I heard Cruz on NPR the other day denying climate change.  He seems to be second behind Trump. 


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2015, 03:19:53 PM »

It's amazing.


I'm baffled and disturbed by it. I also know people back home who actually believe the things he says, even more disturbing.

There's a popular petition to ban him from the UK for hate speech. Somewhere there is another petition not to ban him.


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2015, 04:25:48 PM »
I think it's funny that the uk banned that pick up artist guy just because he's a creepy jerk but won't do the same when faced with actual hate speech


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Is Trump for real?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2015, 04:31:41 PM »
Although I'm no fan of banning speech.  The only answer to that kind of hate speech is for everyone to stand up and say it's wrong.

At least we really know where he stands now, no excuses.  Just like the pope, who is  against normal human rights for gays and women and says as much. 

It's much easier to argue against hate speech when it's plain for all to see.


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« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 04:40:17 PM by jimbocz »


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2015, 05:01:06 PM »
There is hope for America:


We all need to remember this guy used to be a star in a Reality TV Show and personally, I feel he's a distraction.  Even though the polls don't reflect this, I have a hard time believing this race is going to be between anyone other than Bush vs. Clinton.  I also have a hard time believing that an influential family like the Bush's have their candidate dead last and the media have been suspiciously silent. He sometimes never even gets mentioned.  As I know what a controlled circus the media is in the US, I feel like there may be a dark horse coming up from behind.  Not that I wish for that either.  This country cannot take another Bush.  But to simplify, not one single person I know wants "Biff Tanner" for president.




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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 11:35:11 AM »
While he might arguably be labelled a bigot I haven't actually seen evidence of hate speech in the legal sense of speech. To be fair I haven't been following him but I have read the petition to ban him and do not see it there. You would think it would be on the petition? Have I missed something? (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003)

What I find more disturbing than Trump are the nearly 600,000 signatories and open agreement of many fellow citizens on a petition for our parliament to take time out of business as usual to debate something that stinks of fascism (ironically).

I do sadly share some suspicion, perhaps like Persephone, that something malicious is going on behind this candidacy. As far as talking points go with my fellow Brits though, there are far more important and relevant ways they can be civic on the home front than to be so concerned with the US Elections that our parliament now has to run a debate on a US Presidential candidate and his talking points. Seriously?!


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 12:07:59 PM »
Seat,

I actually think about this quite a bit. I think we as immigrants, due to the similar nature of US/UK legal systems, forget sometimes, or really never consider that there is actually quite a bit of difference. 'Freedom of speech' is not quite the same here. So where a Klansman in Georgia can hold up a sign with something racist on it....pretty much whatever it may be (with certain pretty narrow restrictions), in the UK you can get arrested for those sorts of things. Or at least be made to stop.

But these things are of interest. Apparently, for instance, the UK and the US have signed some sort of quick extradition treaty, and I believe it allows for extraditions for the breaking of laws that may not even exist in the other country.

So did Trump break any UK laws?

But the petition thing is of interest too. I think it is pretty much true that Therese May can ban almost anyone from entry, but as a Cabinet Minister/elected MP, she is part of the Government, and as the Executive and Legislative are the same in the UK, do political pressures (like petitions) have an effect on something that is clearly executive in nature?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 12:10:06 PM by sonofasailor »
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 12:36:40 PM »
On a slightly different subject, I thought the following analysis was interesting.  A bit disturbing, slightly unnerving, but very interesting.....

Why Donald Trump Gets Away With Lying So Easily

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/why-donald-trump-gets-away-lying-so-easily

Here 2 years as of Oct. 1, 2016.


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 12:44:20 PM »

We all need to remember this guy used to be a star in a Reality TV Show

I'm afraid that this is actually the most important factor in Trump's apparent success.  He may call himself a business mogul, but what he is, and much more successfully, is a professional celebrity.

While he might give the impression that he's just making it all up as he goes along, and spouting whatever pops into his head, I'm certain that every single thing he's said or done in this campaign has been very carefully calculated.

In the first place, the man knows how to work the media.  He knows how to make sure that he's always the top story.  He also knows that the Republican base are, by now, so twisted and distrustful of all mainstream establishment figures (journalists, politicians, experts of any sort) that any negative publicity  only increases their support for him.   

Trump knows that a significant segment of the American public literally does not care whether a word he's said is true, so long as it confirms their biases,  and they will turn against anyone who attempts to provide facts to the contrary.  If he claimed tomorrow that sky is green, and it's because we aren't burning enough fossil fuels to keep it blue, his supporters would be outside 5 minutes later, running every piece of garden equipment they owned, while letting their vehicles idle in the driveway.  (Or, you know, in the closed garage, because no safety warning's going to force them to risk letting Mexican terrorists into their garage.)

And every single cable news segment, newspaper column, blog, tweet and Facebook meme that resulted-- whether from his supporters, or from sane people-- would only help his ratings polling numbers.

That, in itself, is absolutely tragic, and it's the somewhat inevitable result of what the GOP and right-wing media have been doing for the last 40 years.  It's just worked so well that even they can't control it anymore.  Be careful what you wish for, eh?

But the other factor at play is that Trump is, or at least was, actually a businessman.  He wrote a book called 'The Art of the Deal,' outlining how to get everything you want by being absolutely brazen and uncompromising, and he seems to be following it to the letter.  Start out by proposing something extreme-- far beyond what you actually want? Check.  Put your opponent on the back foot, and make them respond to your extreme demands? Check.  Any easing off from that initial, extreme position then looks like you're trying to compromise, and be reasonable.  The end result is that you either get at least what you actually wanted in the first place, and/or you make the other party look like they're the one being unreasonable and refusing to work with you.

Again, it's basically what the GOP have been doing since at least the Clinton era, but now Trump's doing it to them.  And he's better at it, because he knows how to work the spin to his advantage, and because genuinely has nothing to lose.

So I honestly don't know what will happen.  He might actually get the nomination, if only because the Republican leadership will be absolutely terrified of him running as an Independent, and splitting the vote.

If he does get the nomination, I can't bring myself to believe he would win the final election.  The Republican base is shrinking as it is, and just because somebody's wildly 'Liking' him on social media, doesn't mean they'll actually bother to vote, let alone for him.  (That's the down-side to celebrity; you may have millions of Twitter followers, but that doesn't mean any of them would bother to put down their phones long enough to spit on you if you caught fire.)

But I honestly don't know anymore.  Like I said, Trump's campaign is the culmination of 40 years of right-wing plotting.  And doesn't the monster always turn on its creator in the end?




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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 08:37:08 PM »
I work on an Al Jazeera news program called The Listening Post that's going to air a story tomorrow about the US election coverage (1930hrs on Freeview 108 (HD) or 133 (SD) in the UK; USA people look online).

There's a lot of good information in the show about the value (or lack thereof) of polling data. One problem is most people don't participate in polls, so they only reflect a small sample, and another is this far out from the election, many people don't have any idea who they're going to vote for and aren't really paying attention, so their answer will most likely change as the election gets closer.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/

If you're on Facebook, there will be a preview of the show on their Facebook page in a few hours:

https://www.facebook.com/AJListeningPost/

Personally, I think it's all going to come down to the first few primaries. If Trump does well enough to stay in the race, he's got a chance. If people come to their senses and vote for one of the traditional candidates like Rubio or Cruz, Trump will fade out.


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 12:52:47 PM »
Has anybody heard about Darryn Lyons, a politician from Australia? Try to google him, he is Australian version of Trump  ;D


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 07:50:29 AM »
Trump has the nomination, apparently.
I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2016, 09:08:42 AM »
Yup. I wonder what will happen after Trump (please God) loses. Does the Republican party stick with the crazy racist playbook, try to go back to appealing to people through social issues and religion while mainly working to help out rich people and their banks, or try something new?


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Re: Is Trump for real?
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 07:39:34 AM »
Unfortunately....he is for real, and that reality scares the $#!t out of me.

Anyone remember a few years back when there was a website called "www.votefortheworst.com" that urged 'fans' to vote for ridiculous contestants on American Idol? Well, aside from voting by the hard core Trump fanatics, I would love to believe that this started out as the same kind of joke....but....to me it's no longer funny.
Married December 1992 (my 'old flame' whom I first met in the mid-70s)
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