Advice on our relocation plan (please)

Hello,
My wife and I are planning to move to the UK in September and I would really appreciate some advice.

I’m from the UK, have lived in the US for 16 years and became a citizen last year (making me a dual citizen I believe!). My wife is from Venezuela and became a US citizen about 3 years ago. She worked in London on an employment visa for 2 years before we met – 2002 to 2004.
We are intending to return and live in London. The idea we had was to move to Spain, for 1-2 months and spend the first month relaxing! We will spend the second month applying for jobs in London and travelling over there to any attend interviews we get. We decided on Spain because we have friends there, it is cheaper to live than London, the food is good and we can still get flights to London (and stay there with friends) at a reasonable price.

For my wife’s visa we are looking at two options: spouse visa or employment visa. I have already gathered some wonderful info through reading the posts on this site – thank you. So we know, for example, that upon securing job offers (to satisfy whichever visa) we will need to return to the US to apply for the visa. The main question I have is: does the above plan make sense? Are there any positives, negatives or barriers to my wife living in Spain for that period, and going in and out of London to apply for jobs? And what, if anything, are we missing?

I’m happy to supply more info as needed but for the sake of brevity I’ll stop now.

Thanks very much in advance,

Craig     

Consider staying in Spain longer (aim for a year) and work and live there for real.  Then you can come to the UK via the Surrinder Singh route and follow the EEA family path.

But yes, your other plan would be fine.   

Thanks.

The Surrinder Singh route you say?! When I googled that I was expecting to see information on silk and spices, or possibly a picture of a cricketer. 

I actually thought about living in Spain but my Spanish would have to improve muy rapido!

The Surrinder Singh route you say?! When I googled that I was expecting to see information on silk and spices, or possibly a picture of a cricketer. 

The Surinder Singh Route would allow you to move to the UK without needing a spousal visa and without having to meet any financial requirements.

Your wife would just apply for a free 6-month EEA Family Permit from Spain and then convert it to a 5-year EEA Residence Card for £55 once in the UK.

But you would have to be both living and working in Spain, having moved the 'centre of your life' to Spain (working, living, integrating with the community, learning the language etc.).

55 quid? Bloody hell! I actually am learning Spanish, but it's a painfully slow process. And we do have some friends there. I'd move to Granada and eat tapas tomorrow!

The unemployment rates and my communication would be the main barriers. But would she be allowed to live with me in Spain while we were becoming eligible for the Singh Thing?

p.s. ksand, you don't see any flaws in my original America-Spain-London plan either, no?   

I suppose one of the concerns I had was this: If we had to go in and out of London 4 or 5 times over the course of the summer job search, could that look bad when we apply for the visa?

55 quid? Bloody hell! I actually am learning Spanish, but it's a painfully slow process. And we do have some friends there. I'd move to Granada and eat tapas tomorrow!

The unemployment rates and my communication would be the main barriers. But would she be allowed to live with me in Spain while we were becoming eligible for the Singh Thing?

Yes, she would be able to live with you - in fact, she would have the automatic right to live and work in the UK as the spouse of an EEA citizen living and working in the UK...she would just need an EEA Family Permit for Spain .

Basically, if EEA citizens (non-British) move to the UK and exercise their EEA Treaty Right by working/studying/being self-sufficient etc., their non-EEA family members are automatically allowed to live and work in the UK with them. Same goes for UK citizens living and working in any other EEA country.

The problem is that a UK citizen living in the UK and wanting to bring their non-EEA spouse to the UK cannot use the EEA route and has to get a spousal visa for them instead (same as for a Spanish citizen wanting to bring their spouse to Spain).

HOWEVER, if they were to move to a different EEA country with their spouse and live and work there together for a decent length of time, integrating their life in that country, they can use the EEA route, under Surinder Singh, to move to the UK.

p.s. ksand, you don't see any flaws in my original America-Spain-London plan either, no?

No, there shouldn't be any issue, as long as you can still meet the income requirement from your earnings over the previous 12 months (and all the other requirements).

The Surinder Singh route, if you can do it, would save you thousands of pounds in UK visa fees though, since the EEA Family Permit is free, then the 5-year EEA Residence Card is currently £55 and the Permanent Residence Card (after 5 years) is also currently £55.

In comparison, the spousal visa is currently £1,556, then the next visa (FLR(M)) is £1,149 and ILR is £1,500... and the fees will only keep rising each year.

Definitely some food for thought there. Very much appreciated. Does the Singh route stuff also apply if we moved to the Republic of Ireland?

Oh and I made one quick edit to that previous post if you have a second:
"If we had to go in and out of London 4 or 5 times over the course of the summer job search, could that look bad when we apply for the visa?"

Thanks again.

Definitely some food for thought there. Very much appreciated. Does the Singh route stuff also apply if we moved to the Republic of Ireland?

It should apply to all EEA countries. There's another family here on the forum who have been talking about moving to Ireland and then eventually moving to the UK under Surinder Singh.

Oh and I made one quick edit to that previous post if you have a second:
"If we had to go in and out of London 4 or 5 times over the course of the summer job search, could that look bad when we apply for the visa?"

It shouldn't make any difference for the visa application, but she will need to list on the application every trip to the UK she's ever made.

However, it might be more of a hassle for her to actually get into the UK for each visit as a visitor, as she would need to be able to prove that she meets the visitor visa requirements each time... i.e. she has no intention of living in the UK and has a life to return to in another country (i.e. a job and a home). She may have no issues, but she would need to be prepared for questions and to provide evidence if they ask for it.

I'm no expert but how could you be penalised for flying in and out of London a few times? There are all sorts of reasons for traveling back to your country of origin, particularly if you have family there.

I'm no expert but how could you be penalised for flying in and out of London a few times? There are all sorts of reasons for traveling back to your country of origin, particularly if you have family there.

Not penalised necessarily, but a new visitor visa will be issued each time and a number of visits in a short period of time (i.e. 4-5 visits in 1-2 months, as suggested in the OP) may look odd to the UK immigration officers.

However, it might be more of a hassle for her to actually get into the UK for each visit as a visitor, as she would need to be able to prove that she meets the visitor visa requirements each time... i.e. she has no intention of living in the UK and has a life to return to in another country (i.e. a job and a home). She may have no issues, but she would need to be prepared for questions and to provide evidence if they ask for it.
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Interesting point. That's a bit of a conundrum - assuring them she has no intention of staying there when she's actually there (quite possibly more than once) for a job interview. I wonder how people handle that?

Interesting point. That's a bit of a conundrum - assuring them she has no intention of staying there when she's actually there (quite possibly more than once) for a job interview. I wonder how people handle that?

Well, there's nothing wrong with attending job interviews as a visitor, but she would need to show she knows the visa rules, that she knows she would have to return to her home country to apply for a work or spousal visa... and that she wasn't going to try to stay in the UK and work without the proper visa.

I just thought of something in regards to your plan to stay in Spain while looking for work: if she is only in Spain as a visitor for those 1-2 months, she will have to return to either the US or Venezuela in order to apply for either a spousal or a work visa... because she can only apply for a spousal or work visa from the country where she legally resides and/or holds citizenship.

However, if she entered Spain on an EEA Family Permit, based on you living and exercising your EEA Treaty Rights in Spain, then she would be able to apply for a UK visa from Spain, because she would be legally residing there (whether that's a spousal visa, work visa, or EEA Family Permit under Surinder Singh).

Well, there's nothing wrong with attending job interviews as a visitor, but she would need to show she knows the visa rules, that she knows she would have to return to her home country to apply for a work or spousal visa... and that she wasn't going to try to stay in the UK and work without the proper visa.

Thanks, that's reassuring. As long as she's straight with them she could make a pretty good case for that. 


However, if she entered Spain on an EEA Family Permit, based on you living and exercising your EEA Treaty Rights in Spain, then she would be able to apply for a UK visa from Spain, because she would be legally residing there (whether that's a spousal visa, work visa, or EEA Family Permit under Surinder Singh).

Great info, thanks. But that goes back again to me showing enough of a connection to Spain (job etc) to be able to exercise my treaty rights doesn't it? I can't exercise those rights by lounging around in Spain for two months.... 

But that goes back again to me showing enough of a connection to Spain (job etc) to be able to exercise my treaty rights doesn't it? I can't exercise those rights by lounging around in Spain for two months.... 

Yeah, exactly - so you are going to need to decide which way you are going to play it:

Option 1:
- go to Spain for 1-2 months
- job hunt in the UK
- either you find a job that meets the financial requirements, or she finds a job that will sponsor her for a work visa (which can be extremely difficult to do unless she is very highly skilled or works in a very specialised profession)
- she (or both of you) flies back to the US to apply for the spousal or work visa
- she moves to the UK from the US once she has the visa

Option 2:
- you both move to Spain, you as an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights and her on an EEA Family Permit... which means you need to get a job in Spain and make your life there (you just need to be looking for work to get the family permit, but to qualify under Surinder Singh you need to be working)
- after several months of living and working in Spain, she applies for an EEA Family Permit to move to the UK with you under Surinder Singh... you wouldn't necessarily need to have secured a job in the UK to get this, you can just be looking for work

More than appreciated ksand, thanks.