UK tax

I'm sitting here trying to figure out what my gains through Vanguard were for this first year back in the UK. I sold two times (May+July 2015) that has the gains down under my tax year info. Is there a way to find the gains on the mutual fund I sold off this year (VTI 22 Feb, 4 March, 16 March, 29 March 2016). I can see where the amounts I sold for are.....and considering this money had been moved a time or two.....I have no idea how to figure out what the gains probably were.

You'll need to calculate the cost by creating a share pool using UK rules, and historic spot $/£ exchange rates. http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/Articles/2014/02/05/320021/splash

Is there a way to find the gains on the mutual fund I sold off this year (VTI 22 Feb, 4 March, 16 March, 29 March 2016). I can see where the amounts I sold for are.....and considering this money had been moved a time or two.....I have no idea how to figure out what the gains probably were.

As it happens I also sold some shares of VTI in March this year and I was going to attach a screen shot for you but don't see how to attach a jpeg here.

If you log onto your Vanguard account and select Balances and Holdings. In the account where your VTI is held you should see a tab called Cost Basis.  Click on that and then there will be a tab called Realized Gains.  This should show the gains from your sale(s) of VTI shares and if you click the little arrow beside Show Details it will show you, for each sale, the exact date you sold the shares, the date you bought them (probably), the total $ cost, and the total $ redeemed, and also the $ gain or loss from the sale.

You'll need to calculate the cost by creating a share pool using UK rules, and historic spot $/£ exchange rates. http://www.taxation.co.uk/taxation/Articles/2014/02/05/320021/splash

I have yet to face this, but for the current UK tax year (2016-2017) I will have capital gains taxes from the sale of shares.  I use "specific id" when selling shares so I know the cost of the shares when I bought them in $'s and the cost of the shares when I sold them in $'s therefore for me the gain and the date of that realized gain is known.

I assumed that the gain reported to HMRC would be calculated using the exchange rate on the date of the sale. Are you saying above that I have to look at the historic exchange rate on the dates of the purchase and sale and calculate the gain in £'s from the purchase price in £'s and the sale price in £'s?

As it happens I also sold some shares of VTI in March this year and I was going to attach a screen shot for you but don't see how to attach a jpeg here.

If you log onto your Vanguard account and select Balances and Holdings. In the account where your VTI is held you should see a tab called Cost Basis.  Click on that and then there will be a tab called Realized Gains.  This should show the gains from your sale(s) of VTI shares and if you click the little arrow beside Show Details it will show you, for each sale, the exact date you sold the shares, the date you bought them (probably), the total $ cost, and the total $ redeemed, and also the $ gain or loss from the sale.

Woohoo.....that did it. Not what I was expecting though.....It shows a loss of a few hundred dollars on all the sales for this last Spring as I closed the VTI fund. Kind of irrelevant....since I was making our lives simpler by getting rid of it.....between what I sold in 2015 (After April 6....about $7k gain) and a few hundred dollars of losses on things sold in 2016 while closing out the fund that should mean zippo UK taxes. I still need to get hold of those folks on the phone though.......just to verify that my US Govt pension is NOT taxed here. Now if I could just figure out how to prove I have had my ROTH for over 5 years.........had it a few years with E Jones before moving it to Vanguard in Spring of 2013. I'll be 59.5 in January of 2017, so I would like to close that account down if I can and move that money over here as well. That would just leave my TSP account for savings back in the US.

Woohoo.....that did it. Not what I was expecting though.....It shows a loss of a few hundred dollars on all the sales for this last Spring as I closed the VTI fund. Kind of irrelevant....since I was making our lives simpler by getting rid of it.....between what I sold in 2015 (After April 6....about $7k gain) and a few hundred dollars of losses on things sold in 2016 while closing out the fund that should mean zippo UK taxes. I still need to get hold of those folks on the phone though.......just to verify that my US Govt pension is NOT taxed here. Now if I could just figure out how to prove I have had my ROTH for over 5 years.........had it a few years with E Jones before moving it to Vanguard in Spring of 2013. I'll be 59.5 in January of 2017, so I would like to close that account down if I can and move that money over here as well. That would just leave my TSP account for savings back in the US.

Excellent.

i just had a quick look and I think you are correct that even once you have passed the age of 59.5 that contributions made before age 59.5 have to be 5 years old before they can be withdrawn penalty free.  I think if a Roth contribution was made at age 59, you would have to be age 64 to be able to withdraw it penalty free. Bummer.

I wonder if Vanguard keeps track of how old the ROTH was that I transferred to them?

I wonder if Vanguard keeps track of how old the ROTH was that I transferred to them?

Yes it does.  I just checked my own records after this discussion.  If you go into your Roth account and selection transactions history, you can look back 10 years and in my case I could see my buys and conversions started the year I retired, 2010, with exact dates for each buy and conversion from an IRA.

I have yet to face this, but for the current UK tax year (2016-2017) I will have capital gains taxes from the sale of shares.  I use "specific id" when selling shares so I know the cost of the shares when I bought them in $'s and the cost of the shares when I sold them in $'s therefore for me the gain and the date of that realized gain is known.

I assumed that the gain reported to HMRC would be calculated using the exchange rate on the date of the sale. Are you saying above that I have to look at the historic exchange rate on the dates of the purchase and sale and calculate the gain in £'s from the purchase price in £'s and the sale price in £'s?

The leading cases; Bentley v Pike (1981) STC 360 and Capcount Trading v Evans (1993) STC 11 both concern Capital Gains Tax on chargeable gains accruing on the disposal of an asset. These state that where there is an acquisition and disposal in a foreign currency the taxable capital gain is calculated by deducting the sterling value of the acquisition at the time of acquisition from the sterling value of the sale proceeds at the time of sale.  https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg78310

Yes it does.  I just checked my own records after this discussion.  If you go into your Roth account and selection transactions history, you can look back 10 years and in my case I could see my buys and conversions started the year I retired, 2010, with exact dates for each buy and conversion from an IRA.

Not what I meant.....Vanguard keeps track of what happens while you have been with them.....not the time spent somewhere else. This January will be plenty over the 5 year limit for me....but the "other" time was with E Jones......and I don't really want to talk to them anymore. For me to hit 5 years with Vanguard will be 2018.

Not what I meant.....Vanguard keeps track of what happens while you have been with them.....not the time spent somewhere else. This January will be plenty over the 5 year limit for me....but the "other" time was with E Jones......and I don't really want to talk to them anymore. For me to hit 5 years with Vanguard will be 2018.

If you want to contact E Jones, how about your bank or other statements when you made contributions or conversions directly to a Roth or did you only have a Roth from conversions within E Jones?

The leading cases; Bentley v Pike (1981) STC 360 and Capcount Trading v Evans (1993) STC 11 both concern Capital Gains Tax on chargeable gains accruing on the disposal of an asset. These state that where there is an acquisition and disposal in a foreign currency the taxable capital gain is calculated by deducting the sterling value of the acquisition at the time of acquisition from the sterling value of the sale proceeds at the time of sale.  https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/capital-gains-manual/cg78310

Thanks for the reference, it certainly makes a big difference.  So if I bought $5,000 worth of shares a couple of years ago paid while I was not UK tax resident and paid for them with $ earned in the USA (and say the ex rate was £1->$1.6), and then sold those shares for $6,000 today while I am now UK tax resident, instead of a gain of $1,000 converted at today's rate of £1->$1.3 to a gain of £769, it would be a gain of £1,490.

Certainly not intuitive because there was no foreign exchange of £ to buy the shares.

Does HMRC provide a historic table of exchange rates or do they accept a recognized source such as xe.com?

Does HMRC provide a historic table of exchange rates or do they accept a recognized source such as xe.com?

They provide them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/exchange-rates-for-customs-and-vat#yearly-averages-and-spot-rates

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exchange-rates-for-customs-and-vat-yearly

They provide them.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/exchange-rates-for-customs-and-vat#yearly-averages-and-spot-rates

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exchange-rates-for-customs-and-vat-yearly

Excellent -thanks

This is another reason that I'll sell all non-retirement Vanguard mutual funds and buy Vanguard ETFs before I move to the UK. Then I'll know the purchase date and the exchange rate.

I'll only buy ETFs that don't distribute capital gains and I'll also take all dividends to avoid complication with reinvestment dates and exchange rates. Then, if I sell it will be a simple calculation with a buy date and rate and a sell date and rate.