Rudd announces crackdown on overseas students and work visas

"the home secretary warned businesses that foreign workers should not be able to “take jobs that British people should do”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/04/rudd-announces-crackdown-on-overseas-students-and-new-work-visas

It's all disturbing, but I think what Theresa May said about foreign doctors in the NHS is absolutely deplorable...allowing foreign doctors to stay...but only until British ones are trained up? Fat chance with the way they treat junior doctors.

We will be building a wall next. Oh wait, we're already doing that - doh! This conservative govt is starting to look even more right wing than the last one


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The other day on the news they said they were going to increase training programs for jobs that British people can't or won't do.   

I wonder how you train somebody to pick strawberries all day for minimum wage, or drive around in your own car to wipe old people's butts for LESS than minimum wage.  I'm certain many businesses can't wait for that "training " to start.

So if you're a foreign student at Oxford, you have more rights than a foreign student at, say, the University of the Highlands and Islands?  That is so wrong.

Apparently the public supports her plans to name & shame foreign workers too Scary. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/foreign-workers-list-poll-yougov-amber-rudd-plans-immigration-a7348821.html

Let me give an example.

The ship builders on the Clyde in Glasgow are very busy at the moment building a new aircraft carrier. The site traditionally employed hundreds of apprentices at any one time. Now, Glasgow is a city that has a significant issue with young unemployed.

Now, instead of investing in training apprentices, the companies barely do at all. There are I believe only 6 on site at the moment - compared to what would have been hundreds. Why? Because it has become too easy for employers to just hire another foreign person rather than invest in the people. There is no way that can be right and needs stopping.

With regard to the NHS and doctors, sorry, but it is perfect sense for a country to train enough doctors for its needs rather than rely on people coming from other countries.

With regard to the NHS and doctors, sorry, but it is perfect sense for a country to train enough doctors for its needs rather than rely on people coming from other countries.

Sure, I can understand that. I do believe we should encourage young people to become doctors and nurses and go in the medical field, but when they treat junior doctors like they're nothing, then they're always going to be relying on foreign doctors to fill the void surely?

Also it's totally unfair to say "Thanks for saving lives but once we have someone British to fill your shoes, you're out." Encourage people to train as doctors, but don't treat the ones we've depended on for so long unfairly.

Let me give an example.

The ship builders on the Clyde in Glasgow are very busy at the moment building a new aircraft carrier. The site traditionally employed hundreds of apprentices at any one time. Now, Glasgow is a city that has a significant issue with young unemployed.

Now, instead of investing in training apprentices, the companies barely do at all. There are I believe only 6 on site at the moment - compared to what would have been hundreds. Why? Because it has become too easy for employers to just hire another foreign person rather than invest in the people. There is no way that can be right and needs stopping.

This is incorrect.  There will be more than 140 apprentices working in the Glasgow shipyards this year.

With regard to the NHS and doctors, sorry, but it is perfect sense for a country to train enough doctors for its needs rather than rely on people coming from other countries.

Of course this makes sense on the face of it, but the reason it doesn't happen is because schools make a ton of money from foreign students.   If they can't teach those foreigners any more, the shortfall of money has to come from somewhere. 

Of course this makes sense on the face of it, but the reason it doesn't happen is because schools make a ton of money from foreign students.   If they can't teach those foreigners any more, the shortfall of money has to come from somewhere.

Yes, that's right, but also individual foreign students can be just as qualified or more qualified than local students.  In addition, universities often like to have a diverse student body; it exposes students to lots of different points of view and makes for a better educational experience all round.

Let me give an example.

The ship builders on the Clyde in Glasgow are very busy at the moment building a new aircraft carrier. The site traditionally employed hundreds of apprentices at any one time. Now, Glasgow is a city that has a significant issue with young unemployed.

Now, instead of investing in training apprentices, the companies barely do at all. There are I believe only 6 on site at the moment - compared to what would have been hundreds. Why? Because it has become too easy for employers to just hire another foreign person rather than invest in the people. There is no way that can be right and needs stopping.

With regard to the NHS and doctors, sorry, but it is perfect sense for a country to train enough doctors for its needs rather than rely on people coming from other countries.

Hi verystormy and everyone else,

There's many younger people as well as older ones who simply don't want to work in what they mistakenly believe is a job that's somehow 'below' them. There's way way too many people who 'blame' companies for a lot of things but I believe that it's a combination of various factors. One is that many young/older people just haven't had a good work ethic instilled in them from a young age, another is a generous benefits system and yet another is companies looking for the best available candidate for a particular job...  think about those 3 factors...

Onto Doctors, I guess you've forgotten that it takes 7 years of training/studying/racking up big or massive debts in order to become a Doctor. Starting salaries once qualified are decent if you compare what similar graduate roles pay, but in my opinion low for the immense amount of effort and studying needed. Little surprise that a substantial amount of students drop out of studying medicine in the first few years of their courses. The UK needs Doctors, Consultants, Experienced and knowledgeable senior consultants, Nurses, senior nurses, highly specialised consultants and nurses NOW. Until there's more support, funding, training, a better work/life balance for 'Doctors' (read in my opinion, all medical professions) the NHS simply cannot function without foreign, trained and experienced professionals.

I've mentioned it a few years ago on this forum and a few topics, the NHS headhunted one of my relatives back in 2003'ish, lets just say they really, really..  REALLLY wanted him here as there was (I presume to an extent there still is) an acute shortage of Anesthesiologists in the NHS. My cousin was at consultant level in India with I think around a decade's worth of experience at that level. He did indeed get here and worked in a number of hospitals around the country over 3 years or so. With the red tape of government legislation, seeing how the NHS was run given his skillset, a few other aspects including his consultant pathologist wife not being paid (locum) to get UK experience when she arrived a few months later, he buckled down for more studying and passed his exams for the USA and quickly moved over there for quadruple the pay albeit with perhaps 50-75% more hours. He said he'd do that for a few years buy and pay off a decent house and then cut back hours to save his own health, oh and also, his wife also was allowed to practice to gain US experience whilst she studied to pass her exams and get paid as well.

The UK lost out on two highly experienced and knowledgeable staff, some of their friends stayed in the UK, other's did the same as them, a few years here and left once much better jobs were landed in other countries.

Every 'job' in the UK, offered by companies offering them here can be done by a British person. When me and my brother employed 28 staff, we looked for the best candidate for each position we offered and it 'just' turned out to be that at the time (2005-8) only one of those was a 'foreign' worker. I know plenty of other company owners who had it the opposite way around and others with a mix between the two.

The new government we have now is 'tasked with delivering Brexit' and it's now become more clear that the referendum result was due to 'immigration' and a big swathe of the leave voters believing the lie that all the UK's issues are because of it. The government have to be seen that they are 'doing something' about 'immigration' to keep them happy. Every person who looks more carefully at this notion reaslises that it's unworkable/undeliverable due to the reasons above.

Cheers DtM! West London & Slough UK!