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Topic: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News  (Read 3433 times)

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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 04:16:05 PM »
Okay, but... here's my one lingering question...

IF the dad has a Tier 2 visa, he's entitled to enter the UK on that.  And the mum is a stay-at-home who homeschools the kids.  Why didn't she stay in the US with the kids, and the dad could come to the UK and take up his job at NHS?
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 04:20:43 PM »
Okay, but... here's my one lingering question...

IF the dad has a Tier 2 visa, he's entitled to enter the UK on that.  And the mum is a stay-at-home who homeschools the kids.  Why didn't she stay in the US with the kids, and the dad could come to the UK and take up his job at NHS?

You know, I almost posted this exact question a few minutes ago, but then I wondered if maybe something happened to his Tier 2 visa when they got detained, which meant he had to go back to the US and couldn't start the job.


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 04:22:05 PM »
Okay, but... here's my one lingering question...

IF the dad has a Tier 2 visa, he's entitled to enter the UK on that.  And the mum is a stay-at-home who homeschools the kids.  Why didn't she stay in the US with the kids, and the dad could come to the UK and take up his job at NHS?

I was also very surprised that it was Dad in the USA!


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »
I can only hope that this brings attention to how crap the advice given by government agencies in relation to immigration can be. You now have to pay for that advice, and its so often wrong with huge implications for the lives of the people impacted by their bad advice. The UK either needs leagues of lawyers as versed in immigration as this forum or it's going to get even messier post-brexit. I'm sure the government doesn't care because their goal is to keep the immigrants out, but they shouldn't be targeting families (or nurses & doctors) as their way to reduce net migration.


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 04:41:39 PM »
That's so true, @margo , the rules are labyrinthine and applicants are given basically no official help. I'm sure this is at least partly deliberate, but it's ridiculous that a country's government officials are so ignorant of its laws and procedures.
On s'envolera du même quai
Les yeux dans les mêmes reflets,
Pour cette vie et celle d'après
Tu seras mon unique projet.

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--Francis Cabrel


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 05:35:00 PM »
That's so true, @margo , the rules are labyrinthine and applicants are given basically no official help. I'm sure this is at least partly deliberate, but it's ridiculous that a country's government officials are so ignorant of its laws and procedures.

If I had a nickel for every time someone assumed I automatically could apply for citizenship as I'm married to a Brit, I wouldn't have been out of pocket for the appointment I made this morning!


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 05:43:01 PM »

I'm sure he's not the first doctor recruited from outside the UK; there must be someone in the NHS who knows enough about UK immigration to help foreign people navigate the system. Somehow, though, these people were left to figure it out on their own.

There are four of "the NHS" NHS England, NHS NI, NHS Scotland and NHS Wales and within those, lots of NHS Trusts to cover areas.


I should imagine most NHS Trusts will hold sponsorship licences as they sponsor staff and their families all the time. They did get him the correct visa and if he had asked about his family, then I assume they would have helped with their visas too as they would have done this a lot of times. These parents seem to be saying that they knew their children hadn't inherited British citizenship through the mother as she wasn't born in the UK.

I have no idea why he didn't ask his sponsors about visas for his 3 US citizen children to enter the UK. Or failing that, why he didn't take 2 seconds to look up his Tier 2 General visa conditions on the gov.uk website, which clearly states:-

 8. Family members

Your family members (‘dependants’) can come with you when you come to the UK on this visa. Your family members must have a visa if they’re from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) or Switzerland.

A ‘dependant’ is any of the following:

    your husband, wife or partner
    your child under 18
    your child over 18 if they’re currently in the UK as a dependant

Read the guidance on dependant applications before you apply.


When you think of all the genuine people who need to use Article 8, it makes a mockery of them when Article 8 is used to try to avoid returning to a safe country to apply for visas. I should imagine the Border Officers would have told them what they needed to do to get visas to the UK, when they spotted that they had brought their children to settle in the UK when they didn't have permission to do so (have a visa each).

Either he has now found out it was his own mistake and is trying to blame it on others, or he still doesn't understand? Either way, I'm glad I don't live in the Birmingham area.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 05:51:43 PM by Sirius »


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 05:53:55 PM »
If I had a nickel for every time someone assumed I automatically could apply for citizenship as I'm married to a Brit, I wouldn't have been out of pocket for the appointment I made this morning!
Oh my gosh, when that happens, I education the people real quick about the plight of legal immigrants!
9/1/2013 - "fiancée" (marriage) visa issued
4/6/2013 - married (certificate issued same-day)
5/6/2013 - FLR(M)#1 in person -- approved!
8/1/2016 - FLR(M)#2 by post -- approved!
8/5/2018 - ILR in person -- approved!
22/11/2018 - Citizenship (online, with NDRS+JCAP) -- approved!
14/12/2018 - I became a British citizen.  :)


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2017, 05:54:23 PM »
When you think of all the genuine people who need to use Article 8, it makes a mockery of them when Article 8 is used to try to avoid returning to a safe country to apply for visas. I should imagine the Border Officers would have told them what they needed to do to get visas to the UK, when they spotted that they had brought their children to settle in the UK when they didn't have permission to do so (have a visa each).

Good point - they wasted about a year trying to switch in-country when they could have just returned to the US on the originally-booked flight 3 days after trying to enter the UK and then applied for and received the Tier 2 Dependant visas a few weeks later.

It would have saved them a lot of time and money doing it that way. Not really sure I understand the need for them to hire lawyers so they could stay in the UK when it was simple to go back and apply from the US... unless of course they still believed the previous advice that they were allowed to switch in-country.


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2017, 06:11:51 PM »
Good point - they wasted about a year trying to switch in-country when they could have just returned to the US on the originally-booked flight 3 days after trying to enter the UK and then applied for and received the Tier 2 Dependant visas a few weeks later.

It would have saved them a lot of time and money doing it that way. Not really sure I understand the need for them to hire lawyers so they could stay in the UK when it was simple to go back and apply from the US... unless of course they still believed the previous advice that they were allowed to switch in-country.


It was all those trying to abuse Article 8, that brought about the changes in the Immigration Act 2014 and Immigration Act 2016.


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2017, 06:32:24 PM »
Not really sure I understand the need for them to hire lawyers so they could stay in the UK when it was simple to go back and apply from the US... unless of course they still believed the previous advice that they were allowed to switch in-country.

Two of their sons' are finally back in the US to apply for a visa each and will then will return to the UK. But what will happen to their son who is still in the UK and doesn't have a visa?


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2017, 07:01:50 PM »
Just realised that the BBC article contains part of a video interview with the parents (you can see the full interview on today's Victoria Derbyshire programme on iPlayer)... their whole focus is on this belief that 'UK immigration' is treating their adopted children differently than their biological child, but according to 'UK law' they should be treated the same.

But the thing is that they ARE treated the same... by both 'immigration law' and by 'UK law' (as far as I'm aware, there's only one law about this). All their children are entitled (or not entitled) to the same citizenship, unless of course, the biological son was born in the UK, making him a UK citizen that way.

Also, the wife has an English accent (only very slightly Americanised), so either the story is wrong and she WAS born in the UK and the kids are entitled to citizenship (but they'd have to register the adopted kids as British first), or she was born overseas but raised in the UK.

In the longer segment of the video, the husband says that the children were detained (i.e. implying the rest of the family weren't) and that they're either hoping their new visa applications are granted or that the government recognises that their mother is British and that they'll be given citizenship.

The wife also states that she cannot apply for visas for the kids to join her based on her being British (presumably because she cannot meet the financial requirement) and that the children are applying as dependants on her husband's visa.

Oh, and his visa is only valid until next March, and he says they're going to give him an 'indefinite' contact after that and so they'll need to renew the visas in a few months anyway ... though, actually, they could always switch to FLR(M) once he meets the financial requirement.


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2017, 08:04:23 AM »
I can only hope that this brings attention to how crap the advice given by government agencies in relation to immigration can be. You now have to pay for that advice, and its so often wrong with huge implications for the lives of the people impacted by their bad advice.

Absolutely. The thing with this situation, assuming everyone is being truthful - the lady is a British Citizen. Her embassy should provide correct information.

I just hope that more people will ignore the fatalism of the argument that we are beyond repair. We are not beyond repair. We are never beyond repair. - AOC


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2017, 10:16:43 AM »
I was also very surprised that it was Dad in the USA!
And , is he still drawing his salary from the NHS? 


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Re: "Let my adopted children enter the UK" - BBC News
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 12:44:47 PM »
2004-2008: Student Visa
2008-2010: Tier 1 PSW
2010-2011: Tier 4
2011-2014: Tier 2
2013-2016: New Tier 2 (changed jobs)
16/12/15: SET (LR) successful! - It's been a long road...
12/05/16: Citizenship ceremony!


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