Grr! Comparative costs of immigration.

Tory in-laws eating up every word of the Daily Mail. The free 12-bedroom London houses!

Strange as that might seem, that’s because that's exactly what did happen not so long ago! They often got more than one rented house paid for too, so that all of the children of those on welfare, got a bedroom each once they reached age 10(?), regardless of the number of children they had. Whereas the children of parents that worked and owned their own property, often had to share rooms until they left home.

Then in about 2008/9, when the UK's annual welfare bill exceeded what the government takes in income tax for the first time ever, they looked at what benefit changes the UK would have to bring in. For Housing Benefit, part of the change was that a 5 bedroom property is now the maximum the welfare state will pay for and if they have more children than that, then they have to share bedrooms. 

And I swear every English person I've met assumed I was handed a red passport with our marriage vows. They all do that exact same thing mentioned above thread "are you sure that's right? No, I thought spouses got citizenship?"

I'm English. Ksand is English. I think larrabee might be English too?


And don't get me started on the Housing Laws, which have been my thing since my children were students. The rents were put up at that time, because of a new benefit scheme called LHA, about the same time the PM Blair brought his first two buy to lets. And about that same time, the "no fault Section 21" that allowed landlords to throw the tenant out if the tenant dared to complain about the repairs that the landlord was legally required to carry out.

The ending of those "retaliatory Section 21s" came in about 3 years ago under a new law (that's the Tory government who brought this in, not Labour). Under that law, the tenant can now ask their local council to inspect the property and they then force the landlord to carry out their repairs that need doing and it's often more repairs than the tenant was asking for. If the landlord doesn't do those repairs, then the council will do those repairs for the tenant and bill the landlord.

Definitely. People think Americans get exceptions (not that I think we should) and I have no idea why other than shared language.

I always think it's slightly funny because you see a high percentage make an exception because "we're basically the same", but then those same people are the first ones to make sure nobody compares Brits to Americans! LOL We're either "practically the same thing" or not! You can't pick and choose when it's suitable hah It's the "we're the same" when it comes to talking crap about immigrants but we're totally different when somebody wants to do a direct comparison of a Brit/Brit culture/Etc. to American.

Us dirty immigrants cannot get the 30 hours of childcare.  We CAN get the 15 hours. 

https://childcare-support.tax.service.gov.uk/moreinfopar/2/?returnURL=%2Fpar%2Fapp%2Fextendedentitlement

You're not eligible if:

you're in receipt of a childcare grant
you're a full-time student/an intern
you're not entitled to receive public funds

But your husband is not subject to immigration control. Lots of "dirty immigrants" can also ask the UK for this help if they are EEA citizens, non-EEA citizens but used EEA routes to get to the UK, or used some of the European Court of Justice rulings to get to the UK.

I'm reading it as the only ones who can't have this are those on the points based visas and ancestry visas, and those who earn over 100k (including the English who earn over 100k).

I never got it either as this asking others to pay for your children only came in a few years ago when the welfare payment Tax Credits was invented, about 2004(?). This newbenefit meant that parents only had to work 20 hours a week between them if they wanted to. What pushed the childminding fees sky high, was the Tax Credits benefit.

The Tax Credits benefit was called a "vote winner" by Blair when he decided to use Gordon Brown's idea instead of the welfare reforms of his Minister of Welfare Reform, Frank Field. Field resigned over this as he called their Tax Credits idea a "poverty trap" and he has been proved right, many times over. He then developed the new welfare reform laws for the Tories as did other Labour MPs, which are now being rolled out. This new free childcare is to try to help these parents out of that poverty trap that they are now in, hence why there is a 100k cap.



 

But your husband is not subject to immigration control. Lots of "dirty immigrants" can also ask the UK for this help if they are EEA citizens, non-EEA citizens but used EEA routes to get to the UK, or used some of the European Court of Justice rulings to get to the UK.

I'm reading it as the only ones who can't have this are those on the points based visas and ancestry visas, and those who earn over 100k (including the English who earn over 100k).

I never got it either as this asking others to pay for your children only came in a few years ago when the welfare payment Tax Credits was invented, about 2004(?). This newbenefit meant that parents only had to work 20 hours a week between them if they wanted to. What pushed the childminding fees sky high, was the Tax Credits benefit.

The Tax Credits benefit was called a "vote winner" by Blair when he decided to use Gordon Brown's idea instead of the welfare reforms of his Minister of Welfare Reform, Frank Field. Field resigned over this as he called their Tax Credits idea a "poverty trap" and he has been proved right, many times over. He then developed the new welfare reform laws for the Tories as did other Labour MPs, which are now being rolled out. This new free childcare is to try to help these parents out of that poverty trap that they are now in, hence why there is a 100k cap.

In the application it clearly states "if either parent is subject to immigration control".

My daughter's nursery is the only nursery I know of in my area that is doing the 30 hours.  But they are reviewing their fee structure.  Which means no 30 hours for us AND a fee increase.   

In the application it clearly states "if either parent is subject to immigration control".

My daughter's nursery is the only nursery I know of in my area that is doing the 30 hours.  But they are reviewing their fee structure.  Which means no 30 hours for us AND a fee increase.   

My SIL gets the 30 free hours, but now they're being charged £8 (?) per day for meals for the kid, so they're actually paying more in the end. 

My SIL gets the 30 free hours, but now they're being charged £8 (?) per day for meals for the kid, so they're actually paying more in the end. 

£8?!  For one small child?!  That is outrageous!  I can eat much more economically.  Is that optional?  Can she send a packed lunch?  Is that even permitted?

Is that optional?  Can she send a packed lunch?  Is that even permitted?

If it's not, that's just daylight robbery..

If it's not, that's just daylight robbery..

Seriously. I feed an adult woman three meals and all snacks for just over that per day!

To be fair, my daughter's meals at nursery sound awesome!  And they adapt for allergies and those who are vegetarian.  They pay a cook to make everything.  Looking at it that way (and seeing the insane amounts of food my kid eats).  £8/day sounds about right!

Which means no 30 hours for us AND a fee increase.   

But I thought you said before you paid the highest rate of tax? Over 100k means no free 30 hours anyway.

My SIL gets the 30 free hours, but now they're being charged £8 (?) per day for meals for the kid, so they're actually paying more in the end. 

The welfare state does not pay for everything for a child, unless the parents don't work or do very little work.

Before 2004 we all paid for our own children and that included paying for their childcare too. If we didn't work, then it we went without.

From 2004, something like up to 70% of childcare could be paid for by the welfare state if the parents worked 16(?) hours and their parents paid the rest, but that had a poverty level cap. That is/was claimed though the welfare payment called Working Tax Credit. They could also claim extra welfare payments for their children through the benefit called Child Tax Credits, but that has a poverty level cap too.

From this year there is 30 hours free per childcare from the welfare state for a parent that earns less than 100k. The parents pay the rest. In other words, the poverty cap has been raised to make it fairer to the parents who work enuigh hours top keep their own children and therefore don't claim the Tax Credits benefit to keep their faimily. Those below the poverty cap for the welfare payment Child Tax Credits, can still claim this too, in additon to the 30 hours free childcare, but under the welfare reforms there will be no more avoiding working full time from these parents.

The welfare state does not pay for everything for a child, unless the parents don't work or do very little work.

Before 2004 we all paid for our own children and that included paying for their childcare too.

From 2004, something like up to 70% of childcare could be paid for by the welfare state if the parents worked 16(?) hours and their parents paid the rest, but that had a poverty level cap. That is/was claimed though the welfare payment called Working Tax Credit. They could also claim extra welfare payments for their children through the benefit called Child Tax Credits, but that has a poverty level cap too.

From this year there is 30 hours free per childcare from the welfare state for a parent that earns less than 100k. The parents pay the rest. In ohter words, the poverty cap has been raised. Those below the poverty cap for the welfare payment called Child Tax Credits, can still claim this too.

I've got no clue on the nitty gritty, but it does seem that the benefit of the free hours being increase hasn't been properly subsidised so childcare centres have to pass part of the cost on to parents.

With SIL's kid going just under 30 hours a week already, they save on daily costs, but have to spend more on meals to make up for what the government/council isn't reimbursing the centre for.

She said the hourly rate the centre is reimbursed at isn't the same as what the centre charges parents or what it costs them to run the centre, so the scheme means less money for the centre.

Of course, I could be totally misreading the situation since I don't have kids and it doesn't affect me directly, but I've worked at childcare centres (government-run/subsidised Head Start preschool) and I know that staff need to be paid, food needs to be bought, toys and learning aids need to be purchased and somewhere inside all that, kids need to be loved. Lack of money and the stress it causes make those all harder to do.

But I thought you said before you paid the highest rate of tax? Over 100k means no free 30 hours anyway.

Minor technicality.   

But no, we don't qualify due to salaries but I am still allowed to moan at the anti-immigration-ness of it all.

That being said, I'm THRILLED at what the 15 hours of childcare has done to our nursery bill!

I've got no clue on the nitty gritty, but it does seem that the benefit of the free hours being increase hasn't been properly subsidised so childcare centres have to pass part of the cost on to parents.

With SIL's kid going just under 30 hours a week already, they save on daily costs, but have to spend more on meals to make up for what the government/council isn't reimbursing the centre for.

The welfare state doesn't pay all the childcare costs and parents have always been expected to contribute towards the cost of their children too. As I said above, before 2004, parents paid everything for their own children and we had our children knowing we would be paying for them.

Basically what has been happening since 2004 when the welfare payment called  Tax Credits were invented, is that people are getting more money on benefits than from working enough hours each week to keep their own children. Therefore the poverty cap has been raised so that now a parent earning under 100k (who won't be claiming any welfare payments for their children) can now have this 30 hours of free childcare too. Seems fair as they are one of those paying for the welfare claimants children.

Parents always pay for any shortage after any  childcare paid for by the welfare state. They can pay that from using one of the other welfare payments they claim for their chilldren (like Child Tax Credits), or if they don't claim, from their own salary.

Minor technicality.   

But no, we don't qualify due to salaries but I am still allowed to moan at the anti-immigration-ness of it all.

That might have been started by the charity the Joseph Roundtree foundation when they looked at who the benefit cap would affect, and found it wasn't the indigenous population.

Then in 2014 the MAC looked to see what UK benefits those who were foreign nationls when they applied for a NINo, like to claim. They reported that in 2013, something like 6 billion a year was claimed by these just in the Tax Credits benefit alone!

Changes were bound to come in.