Oh, now, this would gag a maggot!

Yes, I'm aware that the source  http://www.thenational.scot/news/16969407.english-tories-happy-for-scotland-to-leave-uk/?ref=mr&lp=3  might be considered slightly biased. But if true?    (Italics mine.)

"A study, by academics at the Universities of Edinburgh and Cardiff, found that self-professed Conservative and Unionists voters don’t actually care about the Union. According to the paper, 79% of English Tories would support Scottish independence if it meant leaving the EU, compared to 28% of English Labour voters. More surprisingly, 75% of English Tories would support the collapse of the Northern Ireland peace process as the price of Brexit. Perhaps most alarmingly 87% of Leave voters in Northern Ireland would also be content with the collapse of the peace process as an acceptable price for Brexit.  The polling for the universities also found that 49% of English Tory voters don’t think Scottish MPs should sit in the UK Cabinet. " [Oh, REALLY?]

I think that, if the percentages who don't care about the peace process in NI are accurate, people here have become complacent in the 20 years of relative peace.  How is it that I, someone who did not have to deal with it firsthand (or even second-hand), am acutely aware of the bombings and the atrocities carried on by both sides in that nightmare, and of the incompetence/inability of the UK to stop the bloodshed? Perhaps I read too much as a teenager. Or perhaps my memory isn't as selective as some others must be. But I really cannot understand how anyone could possibly forget it.

Unless they were children when it all ended. Let's hope they don't have to relearn it all.  I'm hoping that poll wasn't accurate.

Seems like a question of priorities really. Are those positions extreme? Maybe, but is part of your reason for feeling that way because you underestimate how badly they want Brexit?

I think there’s probably also a not insignificant percentage who would consent to the RAF bombing Berlin if it were really necessary to secure brexit.


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Which is truly pathetic.

Yes, I'm aware that the source  http://www.thenational.scot/news/16969407.english-tories-happy-for-scotland-to-leave-uk/?ref=mr&lp=3  might be considered slightly biased. But if true?    (Italics mine.)

"A study, by academics at the Universities of Edinburgh and Cardiff, found that self-professed Conservative and Unionists voters don’t actually care about the Union. According to the paper, 79% of English Tories would support Scottish independence if it meant leaving the EU, compared to 28% of English Labour voters. More surprisingly, 75% of English Tories would support the collapse of the Northern Ireland peace process as the price of Brexit. Perhaps most alarmingly 87% of Leave voters in Northern Ireland would also be content with the collapse of the peace process as an acceptable price for Brexit.  The polling for the universities also found that 49% of English Tory voters don’t think Scottish MPs should sit in the UK Cabinet. " [Oh, REALLY?]

I think that, if the percentages who don't care about the peace process in NI are accurate, people here have become complacent in the 20 years of relative peace.  How is it that I, someone who did not have to deal with it firsthand (or even second-hand), am acutely aware of the bombings and the atrocities carried on by both sides in that nightmare, and of the incompetence/inability of the UK to stop the bloodshed? Perhaps I read too much as a teenager. Or perhaps my memory isn't as selective as some others must be. But I really cannot understand how anyone could possibly forget it.

Unless they were children when it all ended. Let's hope they don't have to relearn it all.  I'm hoping that poll wasn't accurate.

Read this today Nan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/opinion/england-ireland-border-brexit.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

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Yeah. There seems to be a lot of "clueless". And there always seems to be a perpetual supply of jerks to fill the role of obnoxious...well,  nevermind. (They're like lice, more or less. A global problem and just itchy when they become a local one. Barring their transmission of the analogue of typhus, when they are more than an itchy pest, of course.)

The Daughter has a story of some children here (ten, maybe eleven years old). They were at a castle or a church (I don't remember which she said it was) that was ancient, and associated with a particularly noteworthy king. The children had no clue about there having been kings of their own people, other than the ones in London. Scots history is apparently not taught in the schools. (?) The Daughter said she was shocked by how little of their own history the kids knew.  Fortunately there seem to be groups here and there who try  to keep the culture's history alive.

The old people I have run into with whom the subject has come up in conversation (usually about my ancestry - some of my family were Famine Irish refugees to the USA) are well aware of the Famine in Ireland. They have the Clearances to add to it, and have not seemed terribly fond of the English establishment. Discouragingly, I assume that as the older people die out, unless they've passed along the cultural history they carry, the subsequent generations of kids will become more homogenized in what they do and do not know. Which is a shame, as the Scots seem to be treated, if not quite as obnoxiously as the Irish, definitely as "second class" by some segments of English society. They deserve to know what's behind that. (I've wondered how it is with the Welsh?)

I've no objection to calls for a move to a "British" identity - it's certainly not my place to do so - but the past should never be forgotten. Especially not when it seems there are definite distinctions culturally and in the treatment of the various peoples within the artificially created "nation" of GB historically and contemporaneously. Selective education (leaving out the bad bits) is the same as censorship.