Abandoned Green card

Hey I hope someone can help me with this.
My husband abandoned his green card in 2017 by leaving the US and not returning. Now I understand as it has been longer than a year his status would read abadoned.

Now we filed our taxes for the year of 2017 together and had stated he left the country. We have not filed any taxes for him since as we thought he wouldnt need to as he left.

We now found out there is a form i-407 that you need to file to formally abandon your green card would we still need to file this? I also read there is a tax form 8854 we would need to file to show he is no longer filing taxes? I also read there is a exit tax how would I know if this applies to us?

I am not sure where to go from here. My taxes are up to date. If someone has some guidance or advice that would be great. I have contacted the bank I use to file my taxes but it takes a few days to hear back. Thanks

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From a tax perspective your husband remains a US person required to report worldwide income and gains and file FBARs. Before abandoning the green card by filing Form I-407 your husband will want to learn if the expatriation tax might apply. 

Bankers - incidentally - are not qualified as tax professionals. It is unlikely that a bank would give advice on expatriation.

From a tax perspective your husband remains a US person required to report worldwide income and gains and file FBARs. Before abandoning the green card by filing Form I-407 your husband will want to learn if the expatriation tax might apply. 

Bankers - incidentally - are not qualified as tax professionals. It is unlikely that a bank would give advice on expatriation.

I have filed taxes through H&R Block Tax expats website for the past 2 years I just always relate H&R Block to the bank. We were going to try and get his taxes caught up before he abandons his green card would the tax expats be able to tell us the result of it? From what I have read there are certain terms they look at to see if you need to pay an exit tax?

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There are certain other forms your husband can file  such as the 8840 or maybe even the 8833 however more information would be needed to provide better advice. Regarding the exit tax, if your husband was not a resident for 8 of the last 15 years then no exit tax would be due when expatriating. Exit tax is also applicable if your husband has a net worth in excess of $2 million. It may be a good idea to contact a US tax professional who has experience in expatriation. I am more than happy to give you more advice if needed.

There are certain other forms your husband can file  such as the 8840 or maybe even the 8833 however more information would be needed to provide better advice. Regarding the exit tax, if your husband was not a resident for 8 of the last 15 years then no exit tax would be due when expatriating. Exit tax is also applicable if your husband has a net worth in excess of $2 million. It may be a good idea to contact a US tax professional who has experience in expatriation. I am more than happy to give you more advice if needed.

What are the 2 forms you mentioned for?
Basically to try and put it as simple as I can my husband became a resident in 2011 but then had to refile in 2013 as he was only granted 2 years on the first application he then left the US in 2017 as he was offered a good career in the UK.
I then moved to the UK in Oct. of 2017 and we filed a joint tax return in 2018 for 2017.
Then as my husband was not planning on returning to the US the US supposedly considers a resident status abandoned after a year so we thought he no longer needed to file taxes.
I have continued filing mine married but seperately. Then today he found a form to formally abandon his residency, but before we do that we weren't sure if he needs to catch up on 2018 and 2019s tax returns we or he doesnt have a networth or anything near $2 million we owned nothing in the US and the only tbing we own here is our car we bought for £2000 and we rent.
Do you know how much it is to file late? My husband is worrying we will be 1000s in debt I think the late fees may only end up being a few hundred pound but were not sure.

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What are the 2 forms you mentioned for?
Basically to try and put it as simple as I can my husband became a resident in 2011 but then had to refile in 2013 as he was only granted 2 years on the first application he then left the US in 2017 as he was offered a good career in the UK.
I then moved to the UK in Oct. of 2017 and we filed a joint tax return in 2018 for 2017.
Then as my husband was not planning on returning to the US the US supposedly considers a resident status abandoned after a year so we thought he no longer needed to file taxes.
I have continued filing mine married but seperately. Then today he found a form to formally abandon his residency, but before we do that we weren't sure if he needs to catch up on 2018 and 2019s tax returns we or he doesnt have a networth or anything near $2 million we owned nothing in the US and the only tbing we own here is our car we bought for £2000 and we rent.
Do you know how much it is to file late? My husband is worrying we will be 1000s in debt I think the late fees may only end up being a few hundred pound but were not sure.

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The forms mentioned are to treat your husband as a non US citizen. The form 8833 is a treaty based position based on UK US double tax treaty. You may not even need to do this. However, if you don't want to amend your personal tax returns it may be a good idea to file the 1040-nr with the form 8833 for all the years your husband has not filed for. There are late penalties for late filing of the 8833 thus it may not be a good idea. The cost of filing should not be a lot. However, choose the right person who has the experience.  If you want to discuss in more detail please call me on 0161 408 5613 (request to speak to Adam). I will inform you of the best method to deal with your situation.

What are the 2 forms you mentioned for?
Basically to try and put it as simple as I can my husband became a resident in 2011 but then had to refile in 2013 as he was only granted 2 years on the first application he then left the US in 2017 as he was offered a good career in the UK.
I then moved to the UK in Oct. of 2017 and we filed a joint tax return in 2018 for 2017.
Then as my husband was not planning on returning to the US the US supposedly considers a resident status abandoned after a year so we thought he no longer needed to file taxes.
I have continued filing mine married but seperately. Then today he found a form to formally abandon his residency, but before we do that we weren't sure if he needs to catch up on 2018 and 2019s tax returns we or he doesnt have a networth or anything near $2 million we owned nothing in the US and the only tbing we own here is our car we bought for £2000 and we rent.
Do you know how much it is to file late? My husband is worrying we will be 1000s in debt I think the late fees may only end up being a few hundred pound but were not sure.

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Sadly if your husband had filled in form I 407 when he left the states in 2017 he would have had no other obligations to them because he would have lived there less then 8 years so wouldn’t have had to fill in form 8854..... he just would have done his final taxes and been done once he abandoned his status

I turned in my green card January 2020 when I left the states for good.  I drove to the Canada/US border and officially turned it in by doing an interview and signing the documents.....the US border people sent it in and I received the official notice of my abandonment of status  i407 in March....that stopped me from legally being a US resident.....but because I lived there for 17 years I have to fill in the form 8854 this year.....what it is a form showing your world income and assets at the time you abandoned your US residency to see if you have to pay an exit tax.....and you also have to show you’ve been compliant with your last 5 tax years and filed  and payed your taxes....

My concern for you would be because he didn’t fill in his i407 in 2017 he’s still considered a US resident and since it’s now 2021 he is over the 8 years ......

I’m no expert on the subject at all...just know what I researched for my own situation when I decided to leave the states...but you really need a tax person who very familiar with the US tax laws to figure out what you need to do ....

Your husband is currently delinquent in filing in the US. Most folks would use the official penalty-free IRS Streamlined Foreign Offshore Procedures (SFOP) as the lowest risk and lowest cost way of catching up. https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/u-s-taxpayers-residing-outside-the-united-states.  It is unlikely he owes tax, but would still need to file.

There will be a requirement to continue the filing of Treasury form finCEN 114 also.

Thank you everyone for your advice so from what I understand we need to get his last 2 years caught up to date for taxes then this year we need to file form 8854 and I-407 to abandon his green card and cut ties with the IRS. Should we file form 8854 and the taxes before abadoning or after?

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Thank you everyone for your advice so from what I understand we need to get his last 2 years caught up to date for taxes then this year we need to file form 8854 and I-407 to abandon his green card and cut ties with the IRS. Should we file form 8854 and the taxes before abadoning or after?

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The 8854 will be filed with the tax return for the year of expatriation. The year of expatriation will either be 2021 or any earlier year that he elects to benefit from a treaty.  Tax returns will be a minimum of 2017, 2018 and 2019 filed using the SFOP. These should be filed as soon as possible.

The 8854 will be filed with the tax return for the year of expatriation. The year of expatriation will either be 2021 or any earlier year that he elects to benefit from a treaty.  Tax returns will be a minimum of 2017, 2018 and 2019 filed using the SFOP. These should be filed as soon as possible.

For the tax returns he filed 2017 because he was still in the US in that year it was just 2018 and 2019 he didnt file for. For form 8854 would he not be able to file that with the 2020 tax return? Does he need to abandon his green card first then?

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For the tax returns he filed 2017 because he was still in the US in that year it was just 2018 and 2019 he didnt file for. For form 8854 would he not be able to file that with the 2020 tax return? Does he need to abandon his green card first then?

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The form 8854 is filed after he has formally abandoned his green card which will be in 2021. He will have to file 2018 2019 and 2020 tax returns as normal. In 2021 he is still a US citizen so once he abandons his green card in 2021 he will file his final US tax return along with the form 8854. The final return will include income only until the date of renunciation. I have sent you a message. I am not sure if you will get it or not. If you want me to call you, please just message me your number and I will call you to discuss.

The form 8854 is filed after he has formally abandoned his green card which will be in 2021. He will have to file 2018 2019 and 2020 tax returns as normal. In 2021 he is still a US citizen so once he abandons his green card in 2021 he will file his final US tax return along with the form 8854. The final return will include income only until the date of renunciation. I have sent you a message. I am not sure if you will get it or not. If you want me to call you, please just message me your number and I will call you to discuss.

This reply is - I am sorry to say - not complete or accurate. Form 8854 may not be required at all if the husband files a treaty based return. If he files a treaty based return & is still over 8 years the 8854 is filed with the 8854 for the first year in which a treaty-based position is taken.  The husband has never been a US citizen at all. This might be a simple typo.  Have you handled many treaty-based returns? They are a common approach in this scenario.

The 8854 will be filed with the tax return for the year of expatriation. The year of expatriation will either be 2021 or any earlier year that he elects to benefit from a treaty.  Tax returns will be a minimum of 2017, 2018 and 2019 filed using the SFOP. These should be filed as soon as possible.

So if he files off a treaty is there any way he would be able to file the expatriation form for 2020 or is it because he would be filing for I-407 that he would need to wait for 2021 to file 8854?
Also if we dont meet the thresholds to have to pay an exit tax are we still required to file this form? Just so I know I am filing the correct forms. I have a meeting next week with my tax advisor so I just want to have as much information as I can so I can write down all my questions to fully understand what I need to do.
Thanks

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