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Topic: Margaret Thatcher  (Read 6928 times)

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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2013, 03:50:42 PM »
Laura. Good post. I would say you are a very well educated person.
I have found I can agree with some people but I don't agree on how they arrived at their opinion. How does that sound?
I like the world you describe that existed in NYC.
I don't like people who are closed minded. How can we learn?
I feel we are victims of propaganda, especially from the media, so I try not to have strong opinions. Wishy Washy??
Cheers


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2013, 04:35:57 PM »
My thing is:

If you don't agree with abortion, then don't have one, but don't tell me that I cannot have one, or that I am wrong to have one, or that I am evil to have one, because you don't agree with it.

Go out and vote, and if enough people agree with you, or with me, then it is decided, legally, for everyone.

I just used abortion as an example, but you can use any hot topic you like.

And, I am not going to tell anyone that I will not have a cup of tea with them, and treat them with basic, human respect, because they either do or do not think abortion is legal... Although I might request we change the subject!

Life is too short to 'hate' people for not 'agreeing' with you.

Just agree to disagree, and take it to the voting poles!
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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #77 on: April 17, 2013, 01:34:28 AM »
Off subject but I see you have an appointment in Croydon next Tuesday for your ILR Good Luck.


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #78 on: April 17, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »
@ Tykeman

 " those were mines which had either exhausted supply or were too difficult to get to what was there.

Talking of cheaper coal - because Eastern European coal was heavily subsidised, but British coal was higher quality. could burn at higher temps. Could even see the difference on our own coal fire at home when we had coal from our local pit versus from elsewhere. "

Have to agree to disagree. I grew up in the Durham Coalfield from 4 generations of miners on one side, and 2 generations of miners and 2 generations of steel workers on the other, I lived in a two up two down with an outside toilet, with no hot water just 150 yds from a steel foundry, and despite leaving the area for most of my career, I am back living within a mile of where I grew up.  My family, and the families I grew up around had no nostalgia for these industries, they bent over backwards to try and ensure their children did not end up down the pit.

Until the 80's Durham from end to end was a mountain of colliery waste and pollution, and those mines you claim produced high quality coal included those on the Durham coast at places like Dawdon, which  mined the coal under the North Sea, and could only be run in any economic sense by dumping all their waste onto the coast and into the sea, making the Durham coast one of the most polluted areas in the world.

The deep mining industry was run practically upto its demise with the same couldn't care less attitude to its environment that had been the case for 200 years. Here have a look at this video to jog your memory, because although inland it was certainly the same throughout the Yorkshire coalfield.

http://www.durhamheritagecoast.org/dhc/usp.nsf/pws/Durham+Heritage+Coast+-+Durham+Heritage+Coast+-+Videos+-+Turning+The+Tide



I'm accused of being nostalgic,  by some who probably have no concept of the reality of mining  and the environmental destruction caused  by it. My mothers family worked in the Yorkshire coalfield around Wakefield, and despite being proud of their communities, they certainly weren't proud or happy to spend their working lives in the pit. This whole debate is nothing to do with mining, it is simply a relic of the class war.

The biggest mistake Thatcher made as with every government including all Labour governments, is that none of them have ever bothered to put in place the same sort of  industrial strategy that has served Germany so well since 1945.  We could be extracting coal now, but deep mining can't be done economically unless we return to dumping the waste. The north is slowly breaking out of its dependence of heavy industry, and it can't come soon enough for me.



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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #79 on: April 17, 2013, 05:23:38 PM »
Jack Graham - congratulations on shifting the argument!

That many men didn't want their sons to work on the mines is true, my dad always said that none of his sons would work in the mine, and he worked to get us into higher education. But that is what most fathers will want for their children, for them to have a better life than they themselves had.
That is not the same as the wholescale devastation of an industry and communities for pure ideological reasons which is what Thatcher did.
That is not the same as putting the army on the streets in police uniform against the people.
My father worked at Grimethorpe Colliery, home of the world famous band and the setting for Brassed Off. A pit that produced some of the best quality coal in Europe, a colliery that was developing "clean coal technology", technology that was sold on the cheap to Germany which they have profited from.
"We don't want our chocolate to get cheesy!"


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #80 on: April 17, 2013, 07:05:22 PM »
Tykeman, looks like they've been having a helluva knees-up down in Grimethorpe Goldthorpe today!  ;D

Meanwhile, a HUGE crowd of 3 people watched the funeral on the big screen in Leeds' Millennium Square.  :D

ETA - Whoops! I got my 'Thorpes' mixed up! Easy to do in this part of the country...  :P
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 09:25:25 PM by Mrs Robinson »
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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »
Meanwhile, a HUGE crowd of 3 people watched the funeral on the big screen in Leeds' Millennium Square.  :D

Seems fitting, then..... :P


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2013, 11:15:08 AM »

The biggest mistake Thatcher made as with every government including all Labour governments, is that none of them have ever bothered to put in place the same sort of  industrial strategy that has served Germany so well since 1945. 

I don't know about it being her biggest mistake, but it certainly was a major one. 

Things did need to change, badly, and that was probably never going to be a 100% painless process.  But instead of taking a measured, long-term, organised approach that included a commitment to investment and community support, Thatcher and her government seem to have just gone around, tearing things apart and selling them off to the highest bidder, with zero regard for what came crashing down all around the country.  Then, in typical conservative fashion, blamed the chaos on people who 'didn't want to work.' 

And that, right there, is why I think the parties up and down the country are valid.


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2013, 11:20:53 AM »
Things did need to change, badly, and that was probably never going to be a 100% painless process.  But instead of taking a measured, long-term, organised approach that included a commitment to investment and community support, Thatcher and her government seem to have just gone around, tearing things apart and selling them off to the highest bidder, with zero regard for what came crashing down all around the country.  Then, in typical conservative fashion, blamed the chaos on people who 'didn't want to work.' 

This is how I see it, too, but hadn't found the words to put it so well.  Thanks!


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Re: Margaret Thatcher
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2013, 11:28:59 AM »
Well said woadgrrl!
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