Shower choices? Furring of Shower?

we put in a new cheapo electric shower 2 years ago (after i started an electrical fire with the last shower).  worked fine.... until about 6 months ago.  i realize that electric showers have less pressure in the winter (b/c they have to heat the water more) but it's like a trickle at the moment. it's a 8.5V shower.  i now wash my hair in the sink b/c i takes too long to rinse out with the shower.  a wholly unpleasent experience. our plumber mate thinks that the shower is furred up (limescale).  how do i get rid of this?  i found some stuff to put in the hot water tank but since the electric shower is fed from teh cold water tank, i'm not sure that will help.

complication (of course)  we're redooing the bathroom in 2 weeks.  retiling, taking out the bidet, fixing the sink, new taps on bath & sink, possibiliy new light & extractor fan, heated towel radiator.  we're keeping the sink, toilet, bath in place.   we're also gonna take out the shower. 

we're purchasing all the items.  i can source taps, radiators, shower screens, tiles.  but the shower has me stumped.  i really want a powerful, lovely shower.  will i ever get this in england?  do i get a new 10.8 or so electric shower and then an auxillery pump?  or do i get a power or mixer shower & auxillery pump?  i go online and i'm just compeltely 110% confused. 

hiya!

I posted a few months back on the electric pumped power shower we got about 3-4 years ago - it's absolutley fantastic compared to the non pressure electric units!

Ours does have a limitation in that we use it off the current heating system which means the hot water tank gets drained in about 10-15 mins or so, then of course takes a number of hours to heat back up again - so I'm thinking to install the biggest dam hot water/immersion tank heater i can find!

It is poosible to do the same system with a instant hot water system combi boiler setup - my aunty has this setup and it means u can have constant, well, longer than 10 mins showers if you want !

You need to pop into your local retailers of bathroom equipment, electrical stores and if you can a place called 'TLS' - they're electrical wholesalers and do sell to the public and they're prices are very good indeed!

Once you explain you current setup and what you wish to acheive, they'll show you options you can go for

Obviously, you know you're spend, so hopefully there's something that will provide what you want at a reasonable buying price and of course the all important install cost!

hope this helps a bit!

Cheers! DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Our shower head also goes trickly every six months or so and for us it is indeed limescale.

Go buy a bottle of descaling solution (the kind you mix with water) and put a bit in a bucket with hot water until the bucket is full enough to emmerse the shower head in. That seems to do the trick for ours! 

can i buy this limescale thingy at an ASDA or TESCO?  what's it called?  i have limescale stuff i use on my taps... is it the same?

i wish i understood my sytem.  i have a header tank in the attic.  and a hot water tank in the airing cupbard (adjacent to the bathroom).  i also have a boilder in the kitchen.  however, it's a newly installed (but refurbished) boiler and i don't know if it's a combi boiler or not (does that matter?)

international shipping quotations amatorized over piece prices is easier than my plumbing system!

got the powder- delimescaled the shower head- no change.  rats!

We have the old fashion boiler, the newer combi-boilers, I believe, provide instant hot water whereas the older boilers take a minute for the hot water to come through, hence when you turn on the taps to hot you don't instantly get hot water coming out.

We have a power shower, it will blow your hat off if you put it on full power, absolutely lethal but lovely.  However it does use the hot water but we get a reasonably long supply of hot water, I think.  The power showers have sort of 2 power levels, the super-strong setting and the more normal average power.  We tend to turn ours on super-strong initially to get the hot water flowing and then turn it down to normal but it's still more powerful than standard electric shower.  It uses a pump to suck the water out of the tank so it can be a little bit loud but we're used to it.

can you install an auxillery pump with an electric shower?

if possible, we're gonna put in a 10.8 or 10.5V electric shower.  if that isn't sufficent, we'll put in a pump (ala power shower) at a later date (when we have time to source, money to buy, etc).

paul??

Hi Meggles,

As far as I know, in a word - no. Electric showers are designed to run off gravity fed cold inlet only - they shouldnt be 'high pressure' inputs.

In my 'shower' response from a couple months back, I fedback that we had similar frustrating experiences and tried different combinations. See if you can dig/search for that.

Basically, there is a Triton 'Pumped' electric shower - it's got a tiny pump built inside the shower unit, we thought this would be ideal, in theory it is! except we got it installed and it was noisy ! so we thought ferget that, and promptly re-installed a 'normal' gravity fed shower.

To get the fast flow shower you'll need to step up to a unit that Matt just mentioned, we have one of these in our upstairs bathroom and they are fantastic. Our's is noisy as well, but not to the extent it's horrible and like Matt, we've got used to it. They're 'expensive' in terms to buy and fit, but that water force/flow rate is bloody worth it !!

hope this helps!

Cheers DtM! West London UK!

Firstly the term 'electric shower' freaks me out!! My first and only experience of an electric shower was when I first moved to the UK and stayed with my FIL for a few weeks. There was virtually zero pressure and the water was lukewarm at best.
When we moved to our house we just had a regular mixer tap and a combi boiler. It's a nice high pressure shower and never runs out of hot water. I doubt anyone could convince me to get an electric shower.

it's a 8.5V shower

I think you mean an 8.5kW (kilowatt) shower, not an 8.5V (volt) shower.

There can be some confusion as to what is meant by a power shower, since it can refer to two different things.   One is the type which also goes by the name of instantaneous electric shower.  These are the ones which contain a heating element (generally in the 7 to 11kW range) and heat the water as it passes through.   They are intended to be connected directly to the high-pressure cold water supply. 

The other type of power shower has no integral heater, but instead contains a pump.  This type contains a mixer valve and has to be connected to both cold and hot water, the latter of course being derived from whatever system supplies the rest of the house.   They are really just a way to obtain more flow/pressure from a gravity-fed system (i.e. one which takes its supply from the header tank in the attic).    You can achieve the same effect by using a regular shower mixing valve and fitting a pump as a separate item (e.g. in an adjoining closet).

The instant electric shower has the advantage that you can use it even if you have no hot water stored up in the main cylinder.  The downside is that because the water is heated as it passes through, temperature varies inversely with flow rate.  The temperature of the incoming water also has an effect.   If you try to upgrade an electric shower, it's also important to consider whether the existing electrical  branch circuit is going to be hefty enough to supply it.   An 8.5kW shower will draw a little over 35 amps of current; upgrade to one of the larger 10.5kW units and the circuit needs to be able to handle almost 44 amps.  That might mean new cable, switches, circuit-breaker, etc.

The pumped power shower (or equivalent with mixer shower and auxiliary pump) has much more modest electrical requirements, just a couple of amps for the motor.   If you really want to achieve full temperature combined with Niagara Falls-type pressure (well, not quite!), then I would say that this is the way to go, assuming that your existing how-water system is suitable.  Temperature and longevity are then limited only by the temperature you have set on the boiler and the amount of hot water stored.

To address a few specific points raised:

a place called 'TLS' - they're electrical wholesalers and do sell to the public

I think you mean TLC: http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk

can you install an auxillery pump with an electric shower?

As far as I know, in a word - no. Electric showers are designed to run off gravity fed cold inlet only - they shouldnt be 'high pressure' inputs.

The instant electric showers are designed to run from the high-pressure mains (city water) supply, not gravity feed.  That does mean that you can't use an auxiliary pump though, not that it would really do any good anyway, since the limiting factor is how long it takes the water to pass through the heating elements.  Increase the flow and the temperature will drop; there's just no way around that with this type of shower.

We have the old fashion boiler, the newer combi-boilers, I believe, provide instant hot water whereas the older boilers take a minute for the hot water to come through, hence when you turn on the taps to hot you don't instantly get hot water coming out.

That's really more dependent upon how the plumbing is arranged in the house.  If the combi-boiler or the hot-water cylinder is right next to the hot faucet, it will only take a couple of seconds to get hot water coming through.  If the pipework runs up, down, across, back and every which way for about 60 ft. between the two, then you have to run off the cold water which is standing in the pipe in either case.

Thank you everyone!  I have been doing some more research and have collated it here.  Please edit, change to your hearts content!

In the UK there are three main types of showers.  They are:

Electric
Feeds off Mains Cold Water- only one pipe coming into box
The water is heated inside the small box (most often mounted on your shower wall)
Flow Rate dependent on many things: incoming water temp (hence less pressure in winter), rating of unit (7.5kW-10.8kW)
If 9kW or above, need 10mm electric cable.
If under 9kW, can use 6mm cable
Must have sufficent capacity on fuse box
If the boiler ever cuts out- you still have hot water
Can be used with any type of boiler, since water is coming from mains
An example is Mira or Triton models:http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0093718.htm
Cheaper- £150-£220
Cost to install- if you're replacing existing electric shower (no need for new plumbing or electrics)- approximately £75-£150.

Power
Looks like an electric shower- but... has extra pump inside the actual unit
Feeds off cold water header tank & hot water tank
Once you use up hot water tank.... hot water gone
Not good for combi boilers as they don't provide enough hot water at one time
Can be noisy
An example can be seen here:http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/0094346.htm
Pricer- £300-£400

Mixer
Feeds off cold water in header tank & hot water tank
Pressure dependent on incoming water pressure
Can install auxillery pump (may or may not be needed). This would installed under bath, in loft, in airing cupboard.  Therefore, not as noisy as power shower.
An example of a pump is here: http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1648-0000
Moderatly priced: http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/1050-15910

Can anyone add costs of installing? 

Electric
If 9kW or above, need 10mm electric cable.
If under 9kW, can use 6mm cable

Let me guess, did this come from one of the big-box DIY store websites?   

6 sq. mm cable might be large enough for a shower <9kW, but it depends upon the length of the cable, whether it is run on its own or bunched with other cables, the route it takes, i.e. open to the air, buried in thermal insulation, etc.    Correct choice of cable size depends upon more than simply whether the load exceeds a certain value.

Cost to install- if you're replacing existing electric shower (no need for new plumbing or electrics)- approximately £75-£150.

Again, depending upon what's there.  If the circuit needs upgrading you could be looking at more.

Mixer
Feeds off cold water in header tank & hot water tank
Pressure dependent on incoming water pressure

Just to make this clear, if the shower is gravity fed from the cistern in the attic, the pressure is determined solely by the head of water.  Incoming mains/city water pressure plays no part. 

thanks for those clarifications.

question- is there any way to know if the incoming pressure (from feeder tank in attic & hot water tank in airing cupboard) are enough for a mixer shower?

We have a Triton Power Shower and it was only about £130 or £140.  Mind you, if you have someone install it and hook up electrics, etc that'll cost extra but that's the actual unit price.  I'm sure you can get more expensive ones but I wasn't sure where you got the £300-400 range?

thanks for clarifying... i was looking at a aqua something or other power shower.

question- is it noisy?  i've read that power shwoers over baths arn't recommend- i'm assuming b/c too much spray?  what did you have before?  how does it compare? 

found this great site: http://www.diynot.com/pages/pl/pl003.php