writing skills - why can't people write??

I'm posting this here but it could just as easily go in 'on the job' or 'pregnancy and parenting' depending upon your perspective.

I teach part time at 2 universities. At both places my students are in the graphic arts programmes which are broken down into ilustration, photography, or graphic design specialties.

Both schools, like every other undergrad design programme I am familiar with here in the UK require essay writing and a final Year 3 dissertation of around 8000 words.

This week I have just finished grading over 50 Year 1 essays. My colleague (who has over 15 years in the Uni system) and I have been shocked by the atrocious state of the writing we have received. Furthermore, most of them never set foot in the library and relied solely on the internet for their 'research'! Most had no idea how to do a proper bibliography or footnote.

Now, I have yet to figure out the UK education system prior to Uni. Not having a child old enough for that yet is part of it, but trying to sort it out confuses me no end! My colleague assures me, though, that these students should have been doing plenty of essay writing for a variety of courses they would have taken before Uni. But from their comments (they have course assessment forms they fill out), you'd not think that at all. We have over 100 Year 1 students and only a handful turned in good essays. A huge number of them wanted to know why WE weren't teaching them how to write them!

Now I know that 'art students' can be a bit of a lame bunch. But I sense this is not a problem exclusive to my field.

Furthermore, there seems to be a total lack of interest on the part of the students to learn about anything outside their immediate area of interest. For example, illustration students who don't understand why it might be useful or just plain interesting to learn about photographers or graphic designers. Given how competitive the job market is in their fields, you'd think they'd embrace anything they could that might inspire them or give them an edge!

Again, though, I sense this is not just an art student thing. DH is a geologist but is currently working out of a geography dept and he's amazed at how resistant the geography students are to anything out of their area.

I know I'm probably sounding like an old fogey here, but does anyone else have any experience of this be it as a student here or a parent or employer?

Is the system going to the dogs? 

(BTW, I'm not saying this is just a UK thing - I haven't taught at Uni level in the US for 8 years now but would assume there are similar problems)

I'm finishing my degree through a distance programme at a US university and work as a junior librarian of sorts at a UK university, which gives me an interesting perspective from which to evaluate the difference between the two systems and their students.
I too find that large numbers of students at UK universities are unwilling to focus beyond their concentration and many struggle with writing and most have no clue how to perform basic research. Maybe I only get the "thick" students in the library, but for a generation of students who were supposedly raised on technology; their ability to use computers is shocking. Many have trouble grasping simple concepts such as how to find a book in the library, searching databases, and accessing online journals. I always operated on the assumption that students who had done well enough on their A Levels to get into university would have some notion of how to find a book.

In contrast, my peers on my course in US typically display very good writing and critical thinking abilities that I think one would struggle to find in most British undergraduates. All of them know how to perform research and write essays with citations as these exercises are routine in our study.

When speaking with a couple of exchange students from the US they shared a similar sentiment and couldn’t believe how little work was required. They seemed thrilled that they were not required to have written two essays for a course before half term.

In my view, British students have become far too accustomed to sitting exams a few times a year, rather than having to consistently display their scholarly abilities throughout the year in the form of essays, group work and discussions.

When I was a graduate student, I used to work at a test prep centre helping students prepare for the GMAT (this was in London, and mostly US/UK students). Most of the students were from top universities, and held really good jobs. Many of them were applying to upper tier business schools. I could not believe the quality of the writing samples that they would submit as part of the practice tests. I know my writing skills have probably declined since leaving uni, but at least I still know how to write in complete sentences.

I left school (UK) and took a few years to get a job and whatnot before I then went to University.  My first assignment I scraped a pass but was pulled aside by the lecturer who spoke to me about the layout.  It was all over the place, no structure - no conclusion and NO bibliography.  She asked one of my classmates to show me his and I was just gobsmacked at the difference between his and mine, I was really embarrassed.

Point being, I wasn't taught at school that this was required and I wasn't taught at University before I submitted the assignment.  Doing an essay at school (albeit a rarity) is entirely different from submitting an assignment at University (IME).  Needless to say, the next one was a huge improvement but if she hadn't pulled me aside I would never have known.

Point being, I wasn't taught at school that this was required and I wasn't taught at University before I submitted the assignment.  Doing an essay at school (albeit a rarity) is entirely different from submitting an assignment at University (IME).  Needless to say, the next one was a huge improvement but if she hadn't pulled me aside I would never have known.

But how could you (not you personally, really, I mean anyone in the system) have got through school without learning this? I wrote TONS of essays and papers throughout my high school career (age 14-18) and I was never in particularly advanced classes then. All of them had bibliographies and footnotes and basic structure to them.

IMO, Uni level essay writing then takes it to the NEXT level where you start thinking about primary research, original thinking (rather than regurgitating what others have said), and being able to think critically or apply ideas from other disciplines. University is not the place to learn basic essay writing!

Janice and Kate, those are interesting perspectives. Kate, my personal experience is that business people can be really horrible writers (having worked with far too many!). I wonder if that is what you encountered... though you'd think they'd be coming from a wide range of backgrounds.

But how could you (not you personally, really, I mean anyone in the system) have got through school without learning this? I wrote TONS of essays and papers throughout my high school career (age 14-18) and I was never in particularly advanced classes then. All of them had bibliographies and footnotes and basic structure to them.

I honestly can't remember writing many essays at school (I'm going back a bit now, bear with me  ).  We had plenty exams, but I can't recall being asked to do that many essays at school - and if we did, it was an essay on interpreting a particular book, poem or what you did last summer!  They most certainly did not require a bibliography. It might be different now (I would hope so) but they just weren't a big part of my education experience.

I don't remember ever writing proper essays at school (this was about 6-8 years ago). In GCSE English, the only essays (coursework) we had to write were based on a particular book or poem(s) - we were taught how to quote from them, but there was no need for a bibliography because we only used one source.

At A-level, I only took science-based courses - Maths, Physics and Geography, which were all module (exam) based and didn't require any type of essay-writing skill at all.

At university (as an undergrad), I studied Physics - again all exam/problem question-based. So, in my entire degree, the only essay I wrote was my 10,000 word dissertation (and 20-30 of the 50 pages were maths equations). In 4 years, I only visited the library about 3 times - I had no need to go. It wasn't until I did my master's last year, that I found out how to write an essay, how to cite etc.

I'm quite shocked by this. I really am. It is starting to look like a US/UK thing because the scientists I know in the US wrote essays in high school AND at uni level. Even as an art student at Uni level in the US I had to take math, science, and other classes out of my major. The same applied to the science students - they had to take English, sociology, possibly art history, etc.

How can you interpret a book/poem without seeing what others have written about it - even at GCSE or A level?

But I guess it's starting to make sense why my student's work is so bad.

I don't understand. As the mother of son in Year 11 who is completing his GCSEs, I can say that he must write at least one essay or more per month. And my older son is in uni at Goldsmiths and he writes at least one a week on average. Both are acceptable writers, but I usually edit the finished product. As for footnotes my oldest son had to purchase a packet that included specific instructions for how Goldsmiths expected all items to be noted. My daughter is at City and Islington and from her perspective she would agree with most of the comments. Her essays are head and shoulders above all of her classmates. I think some of the difference may be between colleges and uni. From an American point of view this would be no different than trying to compare community college to a major university.

My personal experience is of not really writing essays at school/uni at all. However, all of my friends took 'Art's' subjects at A-level (English, Psychology, Sociology etc.) and had to write at least 2 essays per week - so I am assuming that by the time they got to uni, they had at least some idea of how to write.

It was just that in my case, the subjects I chose and the way in which they were assessed meant that I didn't have the experience of writing essays correctly. My degree courses were assessed by final exam (50%), 2 mid-semester tests (40%) and homework problems sheets (10%)... none of which required writing more than a couple of paragraphs per question. This was also true when I studied Physics in the US - I was in Senior/Graduate level classes and all the work was calculation and math-based.

I don't understand. As the mother of son in Year 11 who is completing his GCSEs, I can say that he must write at least one essay or more per month. And my older son is in uni at Goldsmiths and he writes at least one a week on average. Both are acceptable writers, but I usually edit the finished product. As for footnotes my oldest son had to purchase a packet that included specific instructions for how Goldsmiths expected all items to be noted. My daughter is at City and Islington and from her perspective she would agree with most of the comments. Her essays are head and shoulders above all of her classmates. I think some of the difference may be between colleges and uni. From an American point of view this would be no different than trying to compare community college to a major university.

Your experience is more along the lines of my UK colleague who has 3 children, 2 at Uni now. She says they were always writing essays.

Even if you take the science perspective out of it (such as ksand24's experience), that doesn't account for humanities/arts students that I am teaching not writing essays prior to Uni.

I don't agree with the community college versus univeristy comparison in the US, though. At least the CC I attended had plenty of essay writing as well!

I wasn't referring to the number of essays required at CC vs Uni, but rather the quality of the student's writing.

I wasn't referring to the number of essays required at CC vs Uni, but rather the quality of the student's writing.

I know. Perhaps there was a wider variety of ability at CC, but I don't know for sure myself!

When I went to uni in the US, everybody, regardless of concentration, had to take a basic English course which focused on writing essays and research papers. (Unless you were already skilled enough to be exempt.) Everyone also had to take basic courses in biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, philosophy, political science, history, computer programming, music, art, etc. Everyone in the course was expected to perform at the same level, regardless of whether it was a subject they specialised in or not.  Marks in courses that were out of your area of concentration had equal weight with marks in courses that were your speciality.

I'm quite shocked by this. I really am. It is starting to look like a US/UK thing because the scientists I know in the US wrote essays in high school AND at uni level. Even as an art student at Uni level in the US I had to take math, science, and other classes out of my major. The same applied to the science students - they had to take English, sociology, possibly art history, etc.

Some of it may indeed be a function of the early specialization in the UK school system. I'm a scientist, and had to write essays all the way through high school and university--but then, I was taking English, history, philosophy, etc. all the way through (I have a BA, not a BS). As ksand24 said, my science courses, other than upper level high school biology, required very little writing.

That said, many PhD students and even professional scientists that I worked with in the US had dreadful writing skills. I proofread a friend's dissertation (in physics), and it was atrocious. It's a real problem, as publishing papers is perhaps the most important professional activity in my field, but technical/scientific writing is very rarely taught. It seems to be assumed that one learned how to write at some point and that one will absorb (by osmosis?) how to write a scientific paper, and it is quite evident that that is a bad assumption.

As for setting foot in a library, I do so very rarely, because most of the work I need is in journals, and most of the journals are online. 

I marked assignments for a Year 3 stats course last term, and I was pretty shocked by the lack of logical or independent thinking that I saw. Quite a few struggled with basic maths skills, as well. So it's not just your students, balmerhon.