Labour party and Jacqui Smith on Disability and Old age

Hello to everyone,



I went to a meeting with Jacqui Smith yesterday and this is what I read please pass this on to anyone

you know who is disabled or a carer, it could be you or me one day who becomes disabled do you

want to be shelved because of this? do you want your family to be shelved too?





Older people

Most people will need some care and support as they get older- for example, help around the

houseso they can stay living at home. Everyone knows that they might need this kid of support when

they are older. So should they be responsible for paying for it?







Disabled people



There is evidence that disabled people need more financial help than older people.

The support they need is more expensive and they need it for longer periods of time.

They are also less able to save or prepare for the costs of their care. Should they get more financial support than older pe

people?



Should everyone get the same financial support regardless of the kisd of support they need?



Or should we be expected to prepare for the support we will need when we are older?



This is from the Labour party. The conversations that went on, everyone barr 5 of us was over 60 a

and I being 38 was the youngest in the group of people, they did not mention people on £50000

+ having to pay more into the system, they forgot to mention how much carers put into the system

without charge, but they want to cut money to disabled people and get them out to work, this

was also talked about they want to make it policy for disabled people to earn their keep, Jacqui

Smith grabbed onto this and loved it, people who are long term benifits users who are not disabled

are fine they are doing nothing to get them back into work, they are going to penalise the most

vunerable people who need the support to even get up in the morning without that they can't even

eat or wash let alone go out to work and the Government are still trying to turn this into a Nazi

regime did hitler not wipe out anyone who had a disability, anyone who was of a culture he did

not like or anyone he thought might cost to much.





The elderly are going to have to get equilty release from their homes if they own them to pay for

help this is something that 10 people thought was reasonable yet at 60 or over do you want to

have more debt and that you can't pay back, the attitude was from some but what about our kids

we will have nothing to leave them its something I think about at 38, they where told if everyone

had that attitude where would the UK be in 20 years time, you have to give up your home and

pay for it yourself.



It concerns me that people are being seperated out, we all disabled, elderly need assistance, the

families of disabled people put more into the system than most by tax and ni contrubutions and

the informal care they give 24/7 free, on this basis the people who have disabilities have contributed

the help they require by employing a personal assistan the money they pay goes back into the system

the people they employ pay tax and NI contributions, they by things from shops and businesses they

may even save, so a disabled person is putting more into the system than most also as the people they

employ may have been long term unemployed, they are talking people off the benifits system again

cutting the rates of unemployment down for the government but from the way Jacqui Smith and

the Labour party see it they are a burden that cost to much, should we revert back to putting people

in homes or somewhere else maybe cut back on the NHS treatments they get?



Please complain it could be anyone of us Jacqie Smith and the labour party are talking about now

tomorrow or in 20 years time, it could be our children or husbands, wives or a sibling it could be our

parents young or old.







Sonya Grande

I think it is deeply disturbing that the elderly and the disabled are being forced to get 'equity release' on their homes in order to pay for care.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

Vicky

Victoria and everyone else please email this to as many people as you know they are trying to play people off against each other and it is disturbing that people will not realise the full extent of what disabled people and carers do and put into the system and society in general, how much they actually save the government and how much they pay in time and unpaid work towards other people including employing those who are unemployed taking them off benifits.

Anyone who is on low pay all their life should be able to get something back and those who have a person who has a disability are equaly as entitled as they put in 24/7 help and go unpaid, they do volunteer work and educational work and so much more.

It could happen to anyone by birth or by acquirement either by an accident or genetics.

Being old will happen to all of us and we will all be disabled at some point in our life.

Thankyou

Please go onto the parliment site and write to your MPS.

The MPS have taken a few days to vote a pay rise for themselves at the cost of the tax payers in this country, yet they are telling us it will still take years for disabled people and carers to get their rights realised WHY?

I am disturbed, but unsurprised by this. Time to put pen to paper.

Thanks for the heads up.

The values of societies are clear by how they treat the most disadvantaged peoples.

The elderly are going to have to get equity release from their homes if they own them to pay for help this is something that 10 people thought was reasonable yet at 60 or over do you want to have more debt and that you can't pay back, the attitude was from some but what about our kids we will have nothing to leave them...

I'm not 100% clear in understanding some of your posting, and I'm not saying this at all in defense of the Labour party's stance.  But for some elderly people, equity release (a reputable one) can actually be a good and helpful thing - although you are right, it will mean they probably would have little, if any, assets to leave their children.  And it would be debt that is not expected to be repaid until the house is sold - with the expectation that the sale would occur after the person's death, and be effected by the person's estate.

More information here:

http://www.unbiased.co.uk/find-an-ifa/guides/mortgages/equity-release-unlocking-money-from-your-home/

Notably:  You don’t have to move house or sell your home to unlock equity. With reputable equity release schemes there is a rock-solid guarantee that you will be able to continue to live in and enjoy your home until the day you die – and in many cases still be able to leave something of the property’s value to your family.

Of course, if you don’t have children or family to leave your property to, then equity release might seem an even more attractive concept.

The link goes on to describe various options - and for instance, a Home reversion scheme, is usually a horrible idea.

Of course, no one should be forced to do any of these.  But I think it's important not to spread myths about what a home equity release scheme actually is, and that is can be a good solution for some people - who have taken the appropriate qualified advice for it.

More info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3040663.stm

If you have plenty of money in equity in your property maybe but in todays climate with mortgage lenders putting up the rates of interest who knows what it will be in 10 or 15 years time, its not just about leaving your children money, for me its about the fact that it is my pension to some degree I guess that I can possibly retire and travel or relax little bit, what about those who do not have a home they own do they have to dip into the little bit they have put by for years to do the nice things they put off doing, because they worked long hours to save.

What about getting those people who are perm on benifits really back into work and putting it back into the system and making a specific visa for those coming into the UK from European country that do not need them, as the do for us, what about putting a block on sending money ie benifits back if there families do not live in the UK also, and getting them to rent privately or pay that bit more as they are trying to do with people outside the EU.

The UK population is being screwed, and we are letting them do this, Sonya reads up on all of these legislations and has now started finding out when the meeting like the one on Friday she went too, to make sure she is as informed as possible, we all of us are affected now and in the future by these things, but if your disablede or an informal carer even more so as your putting in 160 hours a week with out recourse to a paypacket struggling to get by and then your trod on even more by being told you still cost to much, is it time for the work houses to come back and those who are most vunerable without help that is payed for, get thrown in them and left to rot? or will they start with drawing medications to help you on your way, if your disabled I would check your medical records, 2 people I know had do not revive if anything happens my friends son and another lady who was disabled when they found out they wanted it removed.

There maybe some reputable agencies for equity release but what if you do not die in time? you could end up homeless and without any money to live on, a lady did a sale of her home she ended up on the streets, this was done by a reputable agencies where she lived they did not pay off the mortgage she owed and the company went bump because of inflation ect.

If you can afford to do it fine but what happens to those who can't?

Indy

There maybe some reputable agencies for equity release but what if you do not die in time? ...
If you can afford to do it fine but what happens to those who can't?

Of course, no one should be forced to do any of these.  ...and that it can be a good solution for some people - who have taken the appropriate qualified advice for it.

 

I guess we are young at the moment and I for one in our situation can not imagine my wife paying into the system through tax & NI contributions and much more getting rid of the debt that worries her so much only to have to take on more at 60 or 65, only to find that the company has gone bump or some other such thing that no one can for see, the question to ask will the MPS of today be doing the same tomorrow I think not, getting bigger companies to give the option to have an insurance cover (not pention) to cover these things, my wifes family their is not one who lived pass 60 so far they all died of cancer or heart trouble suddenly they did not even have the benifit of using the system the paid into for more than a few weeks.

Do you know that this government keeps disabled people in hospital for far to long, one man 8 months due to a fall that could have been prevented, ended up in hospital for 8 months cried because he did not want to nor did not need to be their they kept him in for this long because the NHS Social services and the Local Council where arguing over a door lock for £3000 ish  it cost the NHS £245000 keeping this person a prisoner against his will, another lady 7 months whilst they tried to decide on an electric wheelchair who should fund it  again 3500 the NHS provide them, how many more do you know this money could have funded how many door locks and wheelchairs and personal assistance or the like for the elderly and disabled alike.

This is why we are having problems wasted resourses again our expense and the government causes these things through their so called legislations and laws and red tape.

The people trapped are forgotton about by society and so is the distress it causes them and the funding should be resoursed to get people home not bed blocking.

When determining the value of assets to see if you are eligible to have the State pay for long term care, the value of your home is included in the value of your assets.

Is it fair for two people - one who owns a home worth £200k and one who can't afford to own their own home - to get the same amount of benefits from the State?

Is it fair that someone who has worked hard all their lives and paid a higher rate of taxation whilst doing so is forced to sell their home to pay for their elderly / disability care, while someone who has not contributed as much in terms of tax gets everything paid for him?


Vicky

Is it fair that someone who has worked hard all their lives and paid a higher rate of taxation whilst doing so is forced to sell their home to pay for their elderly / disability care, while someone who has not contributed as much in terms of tax gets everything paid for him?


Vicky

Well, neither of us knows the situation. If someone owns a valuable home, is it because they worked hard all their lives or because they got some help from their families? If someone doesn't have a lot, is it because they didn't work as hard and contribute as much tax, or because they had to spend every penny they earned on food, clothing and rent? And considering how much house prices have risen, older people who own homes that are extremely expensive today didn't really pay that much into them when they bought them. They just got lucky being born at the right time.

I would hate for my parents to need to sell their home to pay for care, but I would understand they might have to.

While I think it is unfortunate, I don't think it is a tragedy.  They have a sizeable asset; they want something else; they sell the asset. 

Not sure how it works here...  But in the US, I know with both my mom and grandma having gone into care homes - we had about a year before all their assets had to be liquidated (homes sold, etc).  Your own assets are used to pay for your care before Medicaid kicks in on nursing home care.  You are allowed a small cash allowance to keep in the bank (less than $2000 as I recall) and you can pay for pre-arranged funeral expenses, and then your assets pay until they run out and then state aid begins.

Both their homes sold at auction for less than $20,000 each ($20,000 is roughly 4-6 months' worth of nursing home care), so they didn't have much.  They worked hard all their lives.

Well, neither of us knows the situation. If someone owns a valuable home, is it because they worked hard all their lives or because they got some help from their families? If someone doesn't have a lot, is it because they didn't work as hard and contribute as much tax, or because they had to spend every penny they earned on food, clothing and rent? And considering how much house prices have risen, older people who own homes that are extremely expensive today didn't really pay that much into them when they bought them. They just got lucky being born at the right time.

I was just posing a hypothetical question to counter your hypothetical question!
But I disagree with much of your post.  The majority of people who own their homes either worked hard or they were helped by parents...those parents having worked hard.  And older people who own homes were probably not 'lucky', as the costs, while not as disproportonate to salaries today, would still have meant that they needed to work hard in order to buy.

My grandparents worked hard all their lives to buy their house.  They both worked full time until retirement, which was unusual then as women were more likely to stay at home.  Obviously my grandfather also fought for his country etc etc....  Anyway, until they died that home they bought was our family home (my dad moved in when they married).  And my parents worked hard to maintain it.  We were never rich, but we had this asset.  Then my nan got ill and had to go into a home, and my parents had to work harder to pay the fees so that we didn't lose our home.  Then she died, and my grandad got ill.  More fees.  Then he died.  Bam!  We got hit by inheritance tax, so we had to sell our home and downsize. 

So now my mum lives in a smaller house.  She has little in the way of savings and will have to work until she can no longer see as she will never be able to retire (pension too small).  When she dies, or if she has to go into a home, I will have to sell her house, as we will have inheritance tax and home fees to pay, and as house prices are so high I will probably spent my entire life renting.

I don't see any of this as fair.  My granparents bought that house as a legacy to their children and their granchildren.  We were never wealthy, it was only a 4 bedroom semi in North London, but we got fcuked at every turn.  It is getting to the stage where there is really no point in buying a house, as it's not an investment anymore, you can't pass it onto your children anymore, and the only person who laughs is the tax man.

That's a bit of a rant, but I feel VERY strongly about this.  No family should be forced to sell their home to pay for basic care.

Vicky

yay Vicky, I agree, I would say to my kids now rent and have a damn good life do the things you can like travel and get hobbies work hard but make sure you enjoy every penny as the only person who inherits is the government and Sonya will remortgage when Josh goes to UNI and he can have his bit then, and so on and so forth, Sonya has worked hard for what she has so the boys have a home to live in for as long as they want to, but now we would be better off selling and renting and giving the boys the money now with a bit for us to enjoy as, life is a bit hard sometimes as most people know, people are working so hard they find it hard and can not afford to go away or just have some down time, moms are going to work or dads depending and missing valuable time watching the kids grow up.

Its difficult, but I think the way things are going Labour may not get in again for a while the trouble is are the next lot going to be the same, are we going to get more £450 ele bills and are we not going to run the van I need to get out for much longer and so on and so forth.

The only way to stop it is to not vote for this government and put hope in the next, but this country is changing and its now in the hands of the communities the government are ment to be serving.

The other thing to look at is the MPS just gave themselves a £24000 pay rise, or 2.4 plus expensises, errrrrrrrr and we are really being taxed to pay that not our old age or disability.

Indy and Sonya