Just need to vent a little

Not just you! Glad you're feeling better about things, it's not easy but it makes it that much more special when you finally are done with the LD. 

Word. I think it'll be much less likely that we'll take each other for granted.

Another girl at limbo here! 

Is just emotionally draining at times. Good to know ur better now!!!

And yes... the "little" cultural differences can get to u. Mine was this past Christmas, my family has dinner on the 24th and say a couple of prayers and songs for new born Jesus... on the other hand, my BF's family is all about going out on the 24th and getting totally smashed. I had a very hard time coping with all that. The family thing is on the 25th.

Good luck! We are all here on the same boat 

Another girl at limbo here! 

Good luck! We are all here on the same boat  ;

Another 'limbo girl' here!! It's nice to know that there are others in the same boat, as I don't have anyone to talk to that understands what this feels like. I'm amazed by the stories of some of you having gone through your LDR for 4 or 10 years even, and it's really given me hope and encouragement to hear your success stories, so thank you!!! These decisions can feel really overwhelming and it requires a lot of patience, support, and commitment to eachother.

As for my own situation, I know that to be together more permanently, my DB and I need to be commited to this LDR for a long time. It doesn't seem likely that my DB would move here (as he's self employed and has a good life in England), and I wouldn't be able to move until my last child is grown (about 5 years). I've learned to try to focus on shorter goals and not focus my energy on trying to solve all the 'limbo' questions at once or dwelling on the time frame, as that brings on the more overwhelming feelings. It's not healthy to always be in a heightened emotional state, so I've learned to 'accept that which I cannot change' right now (and my DB is very much worth the wait ).

It's not healthy to always be in a heightened emotional state, so I've learned to 'accept that which I cannot change' right now (and my DB is very much worth the wait ).

Awww, hope ur DB knows how lucky he is 

Awww, hope ur DB knows how lucky he is 

Oh, that's very sweet. I think we both know how special this is, so we try to be patient with the situation. I've thrown a few pity parties for myself and wondered at the cruelty of finally finding my soulmate, only to have him live 6000 miles away :\\\'(. I guess this is one of those situations when the old saying 'good things come to those who wait' takes on a whole new meaning!!!

When Tim and I entered our relationship, I think one thing we had going for us was I already loved England and we knew going into things that I'd be the one to move....But, I do feel a bit of the limbo feeling because we haven't yet gotten to the stage of proposals and weddings.  BUT, we know we'll be together and it will happen...which in some ways makes the limbo feel worse!

But, I do feel a bit of the limbo feeling because we haven't yet gotten to the stage of proposals and weddings.  BUT, we know we'll be together and it will happen...which in some ways makes the limbo feel worse!

How do you cope with that? I love England as well, it was my life dream to live there. I even choose my masters based on the country. But, at times I feel like throwing the towel as he hasn't even touch the we-could-get-married subject. Don't get me wrong, I love my BF and I know he wants to spend the rest of his life with me... but, I just feel like I have the whole responsibility of getting there. Then I see myself here, jobless, without him, feeling totally stress that WE need my visa to be together, that I just start to get the big blues. I have even passed some good jobs because I know it's not gonna look good on a CV having another very short job.

I have come to the conclusion that is a cultural thing, or at least in his family and close friends. They get married once they want kids, but not before... sigh.

How do you cope with that? I love England as well, it was my life dream to live there. I even choose my masters based on the country. But, at times I feel like throwing the towel as he hasn't even touch the we-could-get-married subject. Don't get me wrong, I love my BF and I know he wants to spend the rest of his life with me... but, I just feel like I have the whole responsibility of getting there. Then I see myself here, jobless, without him, feeling totally stress that WE need my visa to be together, that I just start to get the big blues. I have even passed some good jobs because I know it's not gonna look good on a CV having another very short job.

I have come to the conclusion that is a cultural thing, or at least in his family and close friends. They get married once they want kids, but not before... sigh.

I think the toughest thing for us is that there isn't a "shack up with your SO" visa option. I mean, it's marriage or bust.  I'm sort of in the same situation as you.  When I go back to the US on April 6, I'll be jobless and broke, as I spent all my savings traveling around the UK with Tim for the past few months  (OTOH, I think I've seen more of this country than most of the people born here!).  I don't want to find a job only to have Tim and I apply for a fiance visa over the Summer, but at the same time, I know I'm going to need to do something.

I was going to disagree with you on the cultural thing, but then I started thinking about it, and I think some people in the UK take living together more serious than we do in the US.  Er, not to say that in the US it's not a serious step in a relationship, but the people I know in the UK who live with their partner seem to be okay with not getting married, and the moving in together is in lieu of a wedding.  Does that makes sense?

Like I said above, if there was a "shack up with your SO" visa, we'd be all over it. US women dating British men really get the short end of the stick (well, and US men dating UK women).  It's almost like "marriage or bust". That kind of thing can scare the crap out of a bloke! 

Anyway.  How do I handle it? haha, I really don't.  No, that's not entirely true, but I do spend a lot of time thinking about when he'll propose to me. I do my best to take one day at a time.  I know Tim wants to spend the rest of his life with me.  We have long-term plans going up as far as 2012 in terms of holiday trips, and this past week we've really been concentrating on discussing the "when I'm here permanently..." kind of things, like where all my stuff is going to go, etc. 

It's rough, but I think the key is to  not push (says the girl who openly asks her guy if he's decided to get married yet fairly frequently).  If you both know you want to spend the rest of your lives together, that's a really good step! How long have you been together?  For some men, they need the woman to ask them about the possibility of getting married for the idea to be planted in their brains.  I'm not talking about a constant pestering, but maybe it's worth mentioning to him just once to see what he says?  One possibility could be to work it into a conversation as a one-off, like, "I was talking to so-and-so and they asked me when we were getting married." and see what he says.  Having three separate people over the course of one weekend ask Tim and me outright when we were getting married actually helped Tim to start to think about it.

These posts got me thinking about whether or not it is a cultural thing, pertaining to when is the 'right time' to get married between the cultures of the US and the UK. I guess I just see it as an individual thing, really. I think in my situation, with my fiance having been married once already, it could of gone either way--he could of been incredibly hesitant to ask me to marry him, or he could of been eager to make another go of it, having learned from past mistakes.

I think for us we just realized it was our 'right time'. We always knew I'd be making the move, and we're both getting tired of the going back and forth routine. I'm younger than him by 14 years, and I'm getting eager to get things sorted kinda But I kept feeling guilty at times since I didn't want to rope him into getting married *just* so I could be there with him (when he could find any English girl and settle down with her and live together indefinitely). But he sat me down one night in bed (before he officially proposed) and told me he wanted to marry me, that he had learned a lot from his last marriage and didn't want to let me go--and I think he sensed I wanted more. And I keep thinking I'll screw everything up, that I won't know the first thing about being a good wife, but he told me not to stress, that I couldn't be any worse than the ex (and I've seen her house, so I have a tendency to agree )

And yeah, we had people ask us when we were gonna get married all the time. I was actually the one who kept shoving it off since I never thought he'd want to marry someone like me, but he seemed to be fairly open about it. And his best mate told me that my fiance seems different when I'm there versus when I'm not, and I think things *are* different when I'm not there, it's just my fiance isn't keen on talking about his feelings (ewww, what are those? he'll tell me).

It's definitely something that needs to be discussed in LDRs I think, where it is marriage or bust as Becca says. Doesn't need to be pushy, but it's still a good idea to discuss the prospect, because if one person is *really* opposed to the idea, then it'll be much more difficult to be together. And sometimes guys are scared at the prospect I think, but they don't want to admit it sometimes, or they think they'll make a mess of the whole lot, but it's not something they like talking about to their SOs, so they just shove it off kinda and not talk about it at all

And his best mate told me that my fiance seems different when I'm there versus when I'm not, and I think things *are* different when I'm not there, it's just my fiance isn't keen on talking about his feelings (ewww, what are those? he'll tell me).

Like I said in one of the other threads, ALL of Tim's friends and family are telling me how much happier Tim is with me, and none of them want me to leave!  I mentioned this to Tim, and he has the same reaction as your fiance -  he had no idea he was so down without me until it got pointed out to him!

It's definitely something that needs to be discussed in LDRs I think, where it is marriage or bust as Becca says. Doesn't need to be pushy, but it's still a good idea to discuss the prospect, because if one person is *really* opposed to the idea, then it'll be much more difficult to be together. And sometimes guys are scared at the prospect I think, but they don't want to admit it sometimes, or they think they'll make a mess of the whole lot, but it's not something they like talking about to their SOs, so they just shove it off kinda and not talk about it at all

Yeah.  I mean, not that I wouldn't be dating Tim if he had told me he had no intentions of considering marriage, but once you know that it WILL happen eventually, things get easier to deal with, especially in terms of the distance! 

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and experience. I truly appreciate them.

It's rough, but I think the key is to  not push (says the girl who openly asks her guy if he's decided to get married yet fairly frequently).  If you both know you want to spend the rest of your lives together, that's a really good step! How long have you been together?  For some men, they need the woman to ask them about the possibility of getting married for the idea to be planted in their brains.  I'm not talking about a constant pestering, but maybe it's worth mentioning to him just once to see what he says?  One possibility could be to work it into a conversation as a one-off, like, "I was talking to so-and-so and they asked me when we were getting married." and see what he says.  Having three separate people over the course of one weekend ask Tim and me outright when we were getting married actually helped Tim to start to think about it.

I sooo agree with what your saying here. We haven't been that much together (not as much as so many people here), so far 1 year and 4 months. But, we both know we are meant for each other. I'm 28 and he's 24... eeek, yup, I'm the older one. Though, he has lived soooo much that he's like somebody my age. I think the UK legal system allows you to live with your SO and have the same rights as a married couple. So, what's the point of getting married if you are secured? So yes, I do agree that being ask to live together is a huge thing for them and I don't take it for granted AT ALL. He even has plans to rent an empty flat and start buying our own stuff, which give me a sense of protection (A LOT). So I know I am on the safe zone.

Problem is, that he is actually afraid of marriage. His mother got divorced once, and his second husband (my BF's dad) is not what you will call a partner. They haven't gotten divorce because they are not financially fit for it (or so they say)... so they have a pretty messed up relationship. It breaks my heart since my parents are an amazing couple, they are still very much in love and have a strong friendship. 

But I kept feeling guilty at times since I didn't want to rope him into getting married *just* so I could be there with him (when he could find any English girl and settle down with her and live together indefinitely).

I have had the same thought!!  I just don't want to drag him into something that's gonna make him unhappy. But... we are all agreeing on this: we are not in the normal position of "lets live together and get married when we feel like it". I want it for the security that nothing is gonna keep us apart in the future, secure a citizenship and be able to build a family together without the fear of immigration controls. I get into panic mode every time I think of the possibilities of me having a Tier 1/2 visa and then extending it... it will be a nightmare all over again- limbo all over again!! Eeek!

And I know he's happy with me. His family and friends adore me... I just wish he had the same feeling that our marriage is to secure us being together. And not the feeling that marriage is the thing that messes up a good relationship 

But yeah, I know I need to have a calm, long chat with him. But really, I don't want to rush him or freak him out 

I just wanted to chime in here to say, in my experience, it seems many of the people I have met here don't feel the need to get married. Unmarried partners are given the same respect here as a spouse, and many people live together for a very long time without feeling the need to take that step. In America, at least in the Bible Belt portion where I am from, living together without being married is often seen as inappropriate or a "sin" and more people are pressured to take that step, by society or their families, or what have you. Here, people also live with their parents longer. In the states, it seems that people can't wait to get out of their parents' house and live on their own or with their mates (and their parents encourage them to move on, usually when they finish high school - they go away to college or move out), but here it is perfectly acceptable to live with your folks all the way through your twenties, or even longer, if you want. I think there is a lot less pressure involved with the way people live their lives in general. There is a tendency not to rush things like moving out or moving in with someone else or getting married, for that matter.
Also, factor in the "I don't want to get married just for the sake of the visa" thing, and that makes it rather hard to take that step. I think the pressure that a British partner might feel (who has otherwise not faced this sort of pressure) can be a bit overwhelming. Where normally he or she is allowed to take all the time in the world (many people I know here were living with their partner for 5 or 6 years before getting married, if they got married at all) they are suddenly faced with a dilemma of moving faster than they normally would in order to be together completely, or to just deal with the trials of LDR until they are ready to make that commitment.
In Becca's case, it's nice that she has had the opportunity to live with her man for a while, at least, to see how they get along together before making bigger commitments. My DH and I had never been in the same place together for longer than 2 weeks, even after we were married, until I moved over here a few months after our wedding. Not knowing what living together would be like was a big question in my mind. Fortunately, it all worked out perfectly, and we knew we wanted to be together.
I still can't believe it myself that he wanted to get married - that he proposed so soon and was so sure of what he wanted, and he said the visa had nothing to do with it. He had been married once before (to someone he was with for 6 years before the wedding) and the marriage itself only lasted a year, then he had another partner for 5 years, they had a child together, and he hadn't asked her to marry him. Pretty shocking, but I have to say, he must be the exception rather than the rule. Knowing what I know now about the culture of relationships and commitments here, I am very surprised he was so ready to take that step so soon. I feel lucky that we weren't stuck in limbo like many others, but I would've waited forever for him to be ready, if that had been the case.
I think it's best to just be patient, and know that it isn't "you" or anything like that, and most likely, your partner might be a bit afraid to move so quickly, as that is something that doesn't happen as often here - the whirlwind romance of meeting and getting married a few months later isn't the norm here. Even DH's parents cautioned him against moving too fast, and thought I should try living here with him rather than being married (which is funny to me, as my parents always gave me so much grief when I lived with a boyfriend without being married). I am sure one day they will tire of LDR and decide it's better to go ahead and take the plunge in order to make things easier to be together. But you are right, it sucks to have to get married in order to live in the same place, but often that is the only option. Good luck to everyone who is still waiting for their moment! 

Here, people also live with their parents longer. In the states, it seems that people can't wait to get out of their parents' house and live on their own or with their mates (and their parents encourage them to move on, usually when they finish high school - they go away to college or move out), but here it is perfectly acceptable to live with your folks all the way through your twenties, or even longer, if you want. I think there is a lot less pressure involved with the way people live their lives in general. There is a tendency not to rush things like moving out or moving in with someone else or getting married, for that matter.

Actually I think that the 'living with your parents until your twenties' thing has only become more popular in the last 10 years or so, and from my experience, it has more to do with the extortionate house price increases since 2000 than because it's more socially acceptable (see here and here).

I moved out of my parents' house at age 18 to go off to university and only moved back in again at age 22 because I couldn't afford to get my own place (I was saving to do my masters degree). I was embarrassed to tell people that I lived with my parents from age 22-25 (with the exception of spending 8 months in the US last year), so eventually I took the plunge and moved out last November, even though I can barely afford it and could save a lot more money for the future if I stayed at home.

From my experience of studying at a US university, I was actually under the impression that it was more common to leave home and go away to university in the UK than in the US. The majority of the US students I interacted with went to university in their home town (mostly due to in-state vs. out-of-state fees), still kept their old friendship groups from high school and often still lived with or very close to their parents. But here in the UK, I only know of 2 people from my high school who went to university in Bristol and everyone else left home and moved away (I didn't even consider going to Bristol Uni for undergrad because it would mean having to live at home (which would have been very uncool), even though Bristol is one of the top universities in the country).

Thanks, ksand24, for the real British perspective! I just got that impression, when one day at work, I asked a colleague (early to mid-twenties) if he was living on his own or with a partner, and he looked at me like I was crazy and said "Noooo, I still live with my parents. I'm not that old!" Which made me smile. Maybe it's just in the small villages around where I live where people tend to not want to leave the nest so soon. A lot of the young people around here just commute to Newcastle for uni, and a few might go to Sunderland or elsewhere, but they seem to move back in once they are finished and stay with their relatives until they find a partner they want to move in with. Actually, a lot of people around here don't go to Uni, it's pretty much a working class place, so they just get their A-levels and stick around here, from what I can tell.

The living at home/moving away thing is an interesting issue.  I left home as soon as possible because I wanted to get out and do my own thing more than because I felt any pressure to leave.  After university and grad school I ended up living with my mom for a year while I tried to sort out my job and life.  I didn't mind it much because it was more like we were roommates than parent and child, but it was a bit of an embarrassing thing to tell people about.  DH, however, still considers his parents' house his permanent residence, despite him having gone off to uni and grad school, and living in France for two years and Japan for one, he always comes back here, and doesn't see that there's anything wrong with that.  He is a sort of all-or-nothing person, though, and doesn't want to leave until he can afford to buy his own house.  In a way, I can understand why a single man wouldn't want to pay huge amounts of rent for a crappy apartment when he could live rent-free in a nice house and have someone else make his food and clean up after him.  DH's mother doesn't make him (or us, now that I'm living here) contribute anything to the running of the household, even as little as doing a few chores or paying for our food.  This more than anything I find to be different from the US, or at least from my family who always expected me to pull my own weight.  It's a hard adjustment for DH to acknowledge that we can't really live as husband and wife in his parents house, and that we're going to need to rent a place because we can't afford to buy.  I suspect that may be part of the general mental shift he needed to make when we decided to get married.  DH had said from the very beginning that he never wanted to get married, and I had accepted that because I didn't want to chase him away by forcing the issue or nagging him.  In the end, the visa situation forced DH's hand, if there had been any way for us to be together without being married, I am certain that he wouldn't have proposed.  That said, and not trying to toot my own horn or anything, getting married has turned out to be a really good thing for him, and for us.  We both feel more secure and less hesitant about discussing the future.  Even though we knew we wanted to stay together before we got married, making the actual commitment has subtly changed things for us, in a very good way.  

For those of you in LDRs who are hesitant to marry for the visa, or to pressure your SOs about it, remember that men often don't know what's best for them and may need a subtle nudge to get them to think differently about things  .  I have found that with my husband, pointing a thing out in a neutral way then dropping the subject and allowing him to draw his own conclusions usually brings about results.  Even just saying something like "It really sucks that we can't be together permanently unless we get married" would be enough to plant the idea in his head, yet still allow the actual decision be his, so he doesn't feel he's been forced.    

I think it's important to remember that you aren't actually "getting married for the visa," you are getting married for yourselves because as an international couple you have to deal with things that other couples don't have to deal with.  You don't have the same range of options, but that doesn't mean that your marriage is any less sincere, loving, or committed than it would have been had you been able to "choose" it more freely.  And because there is a different dynamic between a married couple than between unmarried partners, you might find that things are better than they would have been had you chosen not to marry.